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It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

tonsky.me

211–220 of 984 posts

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just enshittification. That’s not what enshittification means. Somehow its usage has quickly devolved from a very specific pattern companies used to squeeze “value” out of their customers over time into just “something getting worse in any way” or even just “something I don’t like now but I did before” which is not at all the point.

Last time pointed that out here, Cory Doctorow himself popped up to tell me it's okay, we don't need to word police other people. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44776712

Man I really disliked him for creating that word that got so overused that I saw it in practically every single comment thread this past year. Now I dislike him even more for actively promoting its overuse. Ugh.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#212
I've found the 'same' (abstract) gripe in related fields: for example, PostgreSQL allows users to extend the language with custom operators that must be composed from multiple punctuation marks; the intended use is so you can write succinct formula-like operations like `case when my_container employees` and so on. The problem with these of course is that it's often very hard to guess what some kind of !!`#+*@ semantics a given grawlix is intended to have; both `case when is_subset_of( my_elements, my_container ) then ...` and `set participants = union_of( applicants, employees )` are much clearer.

Another example are customized extensions of MarkDown syntax. To my mind constructs like `[link title](like_address)` already stretch things and the only justification for having brackets plus parentheses to stand in for link syntax is their ubiquity. One of the downsides of this terse syntax is its resilience to extensibility. For example, when you start with an exclamation mark as in `![](URL)` now all of a sudden your code is understood as an `` tag, not an `` tag. What if you need extra attributes? There have been multiple suggestions how to extend `![](URL)` to include desired image dimensions, none have become standard. You probably should fall back to inserting HTML, which I am fine with.

Lastly, when designing a user interface, I have found that having to choose icons is a significant burden, and often one without satisfactory solution. One of my solutions in the past was to fall back to Apollo-era text-only buttons; sure, the texts would have to be localized, but then the entire application is subject to localization anyway. A plus is that each button with a short text instead of a picture already provided the mnemonic, the identifier for that action, something an icon does not do for you.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#213
post #96

It's hard to justify snowflake animations on your website...

The detail on the animations is, as usual, top notch, including the way snow doesn't just immediately turn off but stops falling slowly. I love it.

:-) and while doing this, the background turns yellow — why? how annoying it would be if something like this existed in real life - turning off the fan switches on the lights, and turning off the lights switches on the fan.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#214

I used to be a die hard UI perfectionist. I thought there were perfect UIs, and that you could go more or less away from or toward perfection with choices. But lately, over the past 5 or 10 years, it seems to me that perfection in UI is just as arbitrary and mutable as people's tastes and preferences. It's hard to admit it to myself, but I think my love for the early Mac OS and Windows 9x UIs was mere puppy love at f…

Individual style choices (e.g. whether to use a shadow or not) are always going to be opinionated. Even if one choice is objectively better, it's not going to be so 100% of the time, in every context, to all users.

Consistency is always better. App A and App B should use the same save icon, without any caveats, regardless of what it actually is. If you offer me a consistent experience, I'll take it whether it's Windows 95 or Tahoe.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#215

I used to be a die hard UI perfectionist. I thought there were perfect UIs, and that you could go more or less away from or toward perfection with choices. But lately, over the past 5 or 10 years, it seems to me that perfection in UI is just as arbitrary and mutable as people's tastes and preferences. It's hard to admit it to myself, but I think my love for the early Mac OS and Windows 9x UIs was mere puppy love at f…

> But lately, over the past 5 or 10 years, it seems to me that perfection in UI is just as arbitrary and mutable as people's tastes and preferences.

No. Perfection exists, but it's not how something works or looks. Perfection is stability. A bad solution that you know inside and out is preferable to a "better" solution that you have to spend time to think about every time you use it.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#217
I'm not even going to finish the article. I never want to see these kinds of icons again. You win. Good news is, I'm not seeing a lot of these in GNOME and Gtk+ apps, so I'm already okay. There's only a couple in Firefox. Actually, good luck even locating the menus in GNOME. They keep moving and becoming fewer and fewer with every generation.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#218
post #98

I’ve always respected macOS for being the 'stable' choice for not-as-techy people. But recent versions feel like a mess. Running Tahoe on my 2019 Mac Pro (Yes the cheese grater one) has been surprisingly frustrating. Simple things are broken: Ableton couldn't even trigger a microphone permission prompt, forcing me to meddle with a SQLite database, which is definitely not meant for end users to touch, just to get it w…

That’s on point - it really reminds me of a Linux distro that someone went a bit too overboard on customizing. The inconsistencies are so familiar from cobbling different OS and window themes and icon sets etc together. One more reason to move away from MacOS since they don’t have that anymore either

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#220
The average person can get used to arbitrarily terrible UX. See 87% of the workforce that uses sluggish corporate-bloatware-filled windows laptops every day. It’s only those who have experienced and gotten used to something drastically better that will be sensitive to all the shortcomings.

Apple software used to be that elevated experience for the average person.

Given the lack of basic consistency though, it’s evident that there are no leaders at Apple that care about UX enough to thoroughly design and test the whole software experience anymore. Just a bunch of random teams doing whatever.

I wonder why every large company seems to fall off in the same way?

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