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Web development is fun again

ma.ttias.be

511–520 of 658 posts

Re: Web development is fun again

#511
post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs work very well for a variety of software tasks — we have lots of experience around the industry now. If you haven’t been convinced by pure argument in 2026 then you probably won’t be. But the great thing is you don’t have to take anyone’s word for it. This isn’t crypto, where everyone using it has a stake in its success. You can just try it, or not.

That's a lot of words to say "trust me bruh" which is kind of poetic given that's the entire model (no pun intended) that LLMs work on.

Hardly. Just pointing out that water is wet, from my perspective.

But there is an interesting looking-glass effect at play, where the truth seems obvious and opposite on either side.

Re: Web development is fun again

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it fails and the world doesn't end. You fix it or delegate it and move on. Most people aren't working on code for power grids and fighter jets. There's room for failure. This same argument was used by the old timers when younger programmers couldn't code assembly or C on bare metal systems.

In the context of "fun again", debugging slop, finding imaginary dependencies, and discovering unimaginably fragile code isn't fun , even if it's not important. But past bad output, I worry for our creative fulfillment. The old timers are right. That feeling of accomplishment, a keystone of happiness is a product of work. Probably beyond the scope of the thread.

This isn't supposed to be a slam on LLMs. They're genuinely useful for automating a lot of menial things... It's just there's a point where we end up automating ourselves out of the equation, where we lose opportunity to learn, and earn personal fulfilment.

Web dev is a soft target. It is very complex in parts, and what feels like a lot of menial boilerplate worth abstracting, but not understanding messy topics like CSS fundamentals, browser differences, form handling and accessibility means you don't know to ask your LLM for them.

You have to know what you don't know before you can consciously tell an LLM to do it for you.

LLMs will get better, but does that improve things or just relegated the human experience further and further away from accomplishment?

Re: Web development is fun again

#513
I hate the fact that modern webdev has become to unnecessarily complex that developers unironically turn to LLMs instead of realising that it doesn't have to be like this.

Re: Web development is fun again

#515
A product manager here. Thanks to AI, I was able to create my own website on Astro. I was so fascinated by web technologies, that I didn't realize when I created not just a website, but a blazing fast website with extensive amount of metadata generation (Json-LD, OG, microformats, Dublin Core, PRISM, RSL 1.0, Highwire Press, FAIR singposting, MODS generation) and so on. Thanks to this pet project, I'm now quite capable as a software architect of websites. And it is really fun!

Re: Web development is fun again

#516

I've come to realise that not only do I hate reading stuff written by AI. I also hate reading stuff praising AI. They all say the same thing. It's just boring.

I think you’re destined to being bored then, because AI is here to stay. And as its capabilities improve, so will praise for it.

Re: Web development is fun again

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can study the LLM output. In the “before times” I’d just clone a random git repo, use a template, or copy and paste stuff together to get the initial version working.

Studying gibberish doesn't teach you anything. If you were cargo culting shit before AI you weren't learning anything then either.

Necessarily, LLM output that works isn't gibberish.

The code that LLM outputs, has worked well enough to learn from since the initial launch of ChatGPT. This even though back then you might have to repeatedly say "continue" because it would stop in the middle of writing a function.

Re: Web development is fun again

#518
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it all the build stuff and scaffolding I have to get in place before I can even start tinkering on a project. I never formally learned all the systems and tools and AI makes all of that 10x easier. When I hit something I cannot figure out instead of googling for 1/2 hour it is 10 minutes in AI.

The difference is that after you’ve googled it for ½ hour, you’ve learned something. If you ask an LLM to do it for you, you’re none the wiser.

[deleted]

Re: Web development is fun again

#519
What to keep an eye on is noscript/basic (x)html interoperability, namely a web site, not a web app.

With a web site and not a web app, you are not dependent on the whatng cartel web engines, in other words, the door is kept opened for small and alternative _real life_ noscript/basic (x)html web engines/browsers (with CSS renderer or not).

Ofc, you can have a web app and a web site side by side, usually the web app is built upon the web site.

In the end, if we are all honnest with ourself, 99% of the time spent on an online service is keeping it available and safe, 1% will be its actual development.

Re: Web development is fun again

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just fun in a different way now. I've long had dozens of ideas for things I wanted to build, and never enough time to really even build one of them. Over the last few months, I've been able to crank out several of these projects to satisfactory results. The code is not a beautiful work of art like I would prefer it to be, and the fun part is no longer the actual code and working in the code base like it used to…

I use LLMs for code at work, but I've been a bit hesitant to dive in for side projects because I'm worried about the cost. Is it necessary to pay $200/mo to actually ship things or will $20/mo do it? Obviously I could just try it myself and see how far I get bit I'm curious to hear from someone a bit further down the path.

In practice, I find it depends on your work scale, topic and cadence.

I started on the $20 plans for a bit of an experiment, needing to see about this whole AI thing. And for the first month or two that was enough to get the flavor. It let me see how to work. I was still copy/pasting mostly, thinking about what to do.

As i got more confident i moved to the agents and the integrated editors. Then i realised i could open more than one editor or agent at a time while each AI instance was doing its work.

I discovered that when I'm getting the AI agents to summarise, write reports, investigate issues, make plans, implement changes, run builds, organise git, etc, now I can alt-tab and drive anywhere between 2-6 projects at once, and I don't have to do any of the boring boiler plate or administrivia, because the AI does that, it's what its great for.

What used to be unthinkable and annoying context switching now lets me focus in on different parts of the project that actually matter, firing off instructions, providing instructions to the next agent, ushering them out the door and then checking on the next intern in the queue. Give them feedback on their work, usher them on, next intern. The main task now is kind of managing the scope and context-window of each AI, and how to structure big projects to take advantage of that. Honestly though, i don't view it as too much more than functional decomposition. You've still got a big problem, now how do you break it down.

At this rate I can sustain the $100 claude plan, but honestly I don't need to go further than that, and that's basically me working full time in parallel streams, although i might be using it at relatively cheap times, so it or the $200 plan seems about right for full time work.

I can see how theoretically you could go even above that, going into full auto-pilot mode, but I feel i'm already at a place of diminishing marginal returns, i don't usually go over the $100 claude code plan, and the AIs can't do the complex work reliably enough to be left alone anyway. So at the moment if you're going full time i feel they're the sweet spot.

The $20 plans are fine for getting a flavor for the first month or two, but once you come up to speed you'll breeze past their limitations quickly.

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