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Web development is fun again

ma.ttias.be

61–70 of 658 posts

Re: Web development is fun again

#61
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I describe the dish I want, and someone else makes it for me, I was still the catalyst for that dish. It would not have existed without me. So yes, I did "cook" it. The person who actually cooked it cooked it. Being the "catalyst" doesn't make you the creator, nor does it mean you get to claim that you did the work. Otherwise you could say you "cooked a meal" every time you went to MacDonald's.

Why is the head chef called the head chef, then? He doesn’t “cook”.

"head chef" is a managerial position but yes often they can and do cook.

Re: Web development is fun again

#62
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only it’s a bit like me getting back into cooking because I described the dish I want to a trainee cook.

Flipping toggle switches went out of fashion many, many, many years ago. We've been describing to trainees (compilers) the dish we want for longer than most on HN have been alive.

Actually, we’ve been formally declaring the logic of programs to compilers, which is something very different.

Re: Web development is fun again

#63
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flipping toggle switches went out of fashion many, many, many years ago. We've been describing to trainees (compilers) the dish we want for longer than most on HN have been alive.

Actually, we’ve been formally declaring the logic of programs to compilers, which is something very different.

The only difference is that newer languages have figured out how to remove a lot of the boilerplate.

Re: Web development is fun again

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only it’s a bit like me getting back into cooking because I described the dish I want to a trainee cook.

As long as you get the dish you want when before you couldn’t have it — who cares?

Sure, as long as you don’t expect me to digest it, live with it, and crap it out for you, I see no problem with it.

Re: Web development is fun again

#65
On the frontend, you have build pipelines, bundlers, CSS frameworks with their own toolchains, progressive web apps, Core Web Vitals, SEO, layout shifts, srcset/responsive images…

I've been making web stuff for a similar length of time as Mattias by the sounds of it. I started with Perl but moved to PHP 4 pretty soon after. I recognise this problem but I have different take.

All the complexity was there 20 years ago, but we ignored it. That doesn't mean it was simpler. It just means we took crazy (with hindsight) risks. Sure, there were no build pipelines like today, but we had scripts we ran to build things. There was Adobe Pagemill for making site wide changes before we deployed a new version. Back in the day we made those changes, did a very brief check that things worked locally, and then manually FTP'd files to a server, breaking it in the process because a user would see the site change as they navigated. Some of us would put up a maintenance page during an update effectively just blocking all the traffic. That's certainly 'simpler', but it's also much worse for the user, and on a site that did things with data potentially risked corrupting a user's records. It was incredible that things didn't break more often. Maybe they did and we just never realised.

We didn't have CSS frameworks but we certainly did have our own in-house templates, and they had separate toolchains. As time went on that toolchain mostly migrated to Wordpress and it's template builder plugins. Again, give me Tailwind over that mess.

We had Core Web Vitals and SEO in the form of Urchin Stats. We had layout shift but we called it FOUC. We had kind of had srcset, but it was implemented as a set of Macromedia Dreamweaver mm_ JS image preload and swapping functions. is a lot nicer.

Things are just better now. Writing web software is loads of fun. I also leverage LLMs in my code because they're awesome, but not to simplify things. I don't think the complexity is new. I just think it's visible now.

Re: Web development is fun again

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you get the dish you want when before you couldn’t have it — who cares?

Sure, as long as you don’t expect me to digest it, live with it, and crap it out for you, I see no problem with it.

My expectations don’t change whether or not I’m using AI, and neither do my standards.

Whether or not you use my software is up to you.

Re: Web development is fun again

#67
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flipping toggle switches went out of fashion many, many, many years ago. We've been describing to trainees (compilers) the dish we want for longer than most on HN have been alive.

Actually, we’ve been formally declaring the logic of programs to compilers, which is something very different.

(Replying to myself because hn)

That’s not the only difference at all. A good use of an LLM might be to ask it what the difference between using an LLM and writing code for a compiler is.

Re: Web development is fun again

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, we’ve been formally declaring the logic of programs to compilers, which is something very different.

(Replying to myself because hn) That’s not the only difference at all. A good use of an LLM might be to ask it what the difference between using an LLM and writing code for a compiler is.

Equally a good use for a legacy compiler that compiles a legacy language. Granted, you are going to have to write a lot more boilerplate to see it function (that being the difference, after all), but the outcome will be the same either way. It's all just 1s and 0s at the end of the day.

Re: Web development is fun again

#70
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, we’ve been formally declaring the logic of programs to compilers, which is something very different.

The only difference is that newer languages have figured out how to remove a lot of the boilerplate.

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