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The Gentle Seduction (1989)

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Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#11

Post by solenoid0937 »

hosh wrote: post #9

I ended up skimming a lot of it, though I closely read the beginning and the end. This is not a vision of humanity I agree with. Technology is not the only path towards expansion of consciousness, even though in this day and age, it appears so. The wonders, marvels, and growth described in this story can be experienced through other means. To act and build as if it is the only path is, in my opinion, deeply misguided…

Reading the beginning and end is like eating just the buns off a burger and declaring it bland and tasteless.

Part of the magic of this story is that it can change what you agree with (as it did for me.) Not saying it will do the same for you, but it is a compelling vision; I can't think of other ways to get there without getting unscientific.

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#12

Post by solenoid0937 »

melling wrote: post #8
Recursing wrote: post #2

Title should have (1989)

“It'll take at least a hundred years for us to get to Singularity” We’re only 37 years into the story. The woman would only be in her early 60s. With revised estimates, The Singularity is now less than 20 years away.

I hope you're right but I'm skeptical. ASI in 20 years? Are we even on the right track to AGI, or are LLMs a red herring?

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#13

Post by andrepd »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #7

I've had this bookmarked for years. It is my vision for the future. It is more relevant now than ever, when techno-pessimism is on the rise, and people are forgetting the incredible technology that makes their quality of life real - and could guarantee the lives of billions in the future. I'm in my 30s and probably won't live to see this future. I only hope cryonics can get me there, but I doubt it - so much informat…

There are more objective reasons to be pessimist about technology than optimist. There's mass surveillance, centralisation of power to an historically unprecedented degree, and algorithmic social media is destroying our community, culture, and politics. The industry that's receiving an Apollo project's worth of money every few months appears on track to produce not a machine to cure cancer, but to produce fake slop as indistinguishable from human speech or real images as possible. At present there's no reason this insane build-up will leave us anything more than than.

The fact you talk about cryonics instantly reveals your worldview. I'm sorry to say, but I firmly believe you're mistaken.

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#14

Post by hosh »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #11
hosh wrote: post #9

I ended up skimming a lot of it, though I closely read the beginning and the end. This is not a vision of humanity I agree with. Technology is not the only path towards expansion of consciousness, even though in this day and age, it appears so. The wonders, marvels, and growth described in this story can be experienced through other means. To act and build as if it is the only path is, in my opinion, deeply misguided…

Reading the beginning and end is like eating just the buns off a burger and declaring it bland and tasteless. Part of the magic of this story is that it can change what you agree with (as it did for me.) Not saying it will do the same for you, but it is a compelling vision; I can't think of other ways to get there without getting unscientific.

I am familiar with NLP and persuasion techniques, and when I started feeling it creep in as I read this story, I started skimming. I have learned that a compelling vision alone does not mean it is correct or even wise.

The analogy is not correct. I know that burger is rich in taste and marvelous. It is also my opinion that it is an illusion, and lacks substance.

There is so much more to the cosmos than science, though I get that this is the current preoccupation of our civilization. Maybe one day, people will expand their consciousness beyond science the way the main character expanded her’s to communicate with aliens. Until then, I recognize I am in the minority here in HN with this view.

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#15

Post by solenoid0937 »

andrepd wrote: post #13
solenoid0937 wrote: post #7

I've had this bookmarked for years. It is my vision for the future. It is more relevant now than ever, when techno-pessimism is on the rise, and people are forgetting the incredible technology that makes their quality of life real - and could guarantee the lives of billions in the future. I'm in my 30s and probably won't live to see this future. I only hope cryonics can get me there, but I doubt it - so much informat…

There are more objective reasons to be pessimist about technology than optimist. There's mass surveillance, centralisation of power to an historically unprecedented degree, and algorithmic social media is destroying our community, culture, and politics. The industry that's receiving an Apollo project's worth of money every few months appears on track to produce not a machine to cure cancer, but to produce fake slop a…

> There are more objective reasons to be pessimist about technology than optimist.

Strongly disagree, it's why I'm not dying in a ditch of famine at the ripe age of 30.

> to produce not a machine to cure cancer, but to produce fake slop as indistinguishable from human speech or real images as possible

Arguably a stepping stone to better technologies, and a prerequisite to machine intelligence

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#16

Post by cheschire »

hosh wrote: post #9

I ended up skimming a lot of it, though I closely read the beginning and the end. This is not a vision of humanity I agree with. Technology is not the only path towards expansion of consciousness, even though in this day and age, it appears so. The wonders, marvels, and growth described in this story can be experienced through other means. To act and build as if it is the only path is, in my opinion, deeply misguided…

Hah! I found myself doing the same thing. I recognized the frog boiling story, of course, and was mildly interested to see if the linear development ever got subverted, but it didn’t. The conflict never really appeared.

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#17

Post by amenhotep »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #11
hosh wrote: post #9

I ended up skimming a lot of it, though I closely read the beginning and the end. This is not a vision of humanity I agree with. Technology is not the only path towards expansion of consciousness, even though in this day and age, it appears so. The wonders, marvels, and growth described in this story can be experienced through other means. To act and build as if it is the only path is, in my opinion, deeply misguided…

Reading the beginning and end is like eating just the buns off a burger and declaring it bland and tasteless. Part of the magic of this story is that it can change what you agree with (as it did for me.) Not saying it will do the same for you, but it is a compelling vision; I can't think of other ways to get there without getting unscientific.

It's pretty obvious what it's doing, honestly. I did skim the entire thing but I don't think you need much more than the beginning and end once you see the point. Which is more or less lampposted by the title.

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#18

Post by binary132 »

The shadow image of this story should be explored just as thoroughly and “seductively”: the incremental descent of humanity into abominable serfdom, witless hypnosis, and hedonic escapism from an increasingly hopeless tomorrow.

Just because someone paints a nice (or frightening) picture of something doesn’t mean it must be accepted. It can merely be contemplated.

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#19

Post by bc569a80a344f9c »

crashabr wrote: post #10
solenoid0937 wrote: post #7

I've had this bookmarked for years. It is my vision for the future. It is more relevant now than ever, when techno-pessimism is on the rise, and people are forgetting the incredible technology that makes their quality of life real - and could guarantee the lives of billions in the future. I'm in my 30s and probably won't live to see this future. I only hope cryonics can get me there, but I doubt it - so much informat…

I would recommend re-reading The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas as a companion story then. Maybe you'll get to underhand techno-pessimism as something more than the the result of people "forgetting the incredible technology that makes their quality of life real".

https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/kim_02_24/

Why Don’t We Just Kill The Kid In The Omelas Hole by Isabel Kim. My favorite short story of 2024, and very much worth reading if you’re at all familiar with LeGuin’s original story.

Re: The Gentle Seduction (1989)

#20

Post by Trasmatta »

andrepd wrote: post #13
solenoid0937 wrote: post #7

I've had this bookmarked for years. It is my vision for the future. It is more relevant now than ever, when techno-pessimism is on the rise, and people are forgetting the incredible technology that makes their quality of life real - and could guarantee the lives of billions in the future. I'm in my 30s and probably won't live to see this future. I only hope cryonics can get me there, but I doubt it - so much informat…

There are more objective reasons to be pessimist about technology than optimist. There's mass surveillance, centralisation of power to an historically unprecedented degree, and algorithmic social media is destroying our community, culture, and politics. The industry that's receiving an Apollo project's worth of money every few months appears on track to produce not a machine to cure cancer, but to produce fake slop a…

> The industry that's receiving an Apollo project's worth of money every few months appears on track to produce not a machine to cure cancer, but to produce fake slop as indistinguishable from human speech or real images as possible.

Over the past ~12 months I've become increasingly convinced that LLMs are a net negative for society. It's so intensely disheartening to see them eating the entire industry.

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