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The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

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Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#81

Post by rkomorn »

Sprotch wrote: post #75
yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

You are going to love Honore de Balzac and Emile Zola.

Balzac is quite fantastic. And also not great for you if you have too much empathy for the characters but decide to read 10 of his books/stories in a row.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#82

Post by roenxi »

normie3000 wrote: post #79
roenxi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has straightforwardness ever been a defence against misunderstanding? It is common for people to just not get something the first time they encounter it, understanding is usually a process that involves time and a bit of repetition. I remember some questions Stallman once fielded after a talk he gave on Free Software that made me rethink the principle of "no stupid questions" - some people just don't get things.…

How did Stallman handle the questions?

He answered them without fuss. I got the impression it was a standard part of the show and he was used to it. I remember the feeling more than the questions themselves but they were probably of the "what if someone wants to use the software in a way you don't like/without paying" variety. They would have been fair questions ignoring the 30 minute lecture that had just been held on the detail of that exact topic.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#83

Post by Sprotch »

noname123 wrote: post #80
yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

As a Chinese-American, in my humble opinion the Great Gatsby is the 1920's version of "On the Road", "American Psycho" and "Liar's Poker". In another words, it is about the American spirit to chase money/success/glamour in spite of the protagonist's preconceived understanding that doing so would end up ultimately futile and empty. "Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgasmic future that year by year recedes befo…

I think there’s a nuance. Chasing the low millions, and therefore financial security and comfort, is not the same as chasing billions, which would be Gatsby territory

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#84

Post by seanhunter »

I am in (perhaps) a tiny minority in that I love American literature but just don’t get what the fuss is about The Great Gatsby. I just don’t think it’s that good a novel. Off the top of my head I could come up with a list of at least 10 American novels that I have read that I think are significantly superior.

In no order here goes

1. Blood meridian

2. The Bell Jar

3. Of Mice and Men

4. Mason and Dixon (everyone’s gonna say “Gravity’s Rainbow” but I think since this is an explicitly American list, the themes of Mason and Dixon of the North/South divide etc put it more squarely on this list)

5. To Kill a Mockingbird

6. Moby Dick (I’m not the biggest fan of this actually but it’s way better than Gatsby for me)

7. Walden (Does this count? Anyway whatever. Walden)

8. Portrait of a Lady

9. Infinite Jest

10. Go tell it on the mountain

Honestly this is right off the top of my head and looking back I haven’t even got any Hemingway on here, or Ralph Ellison, or Toni Morrison. I could make a case for Slaughterhouse 5 or Catch-22 or The Naked and the Dead or a bunch of other things. Like even though I think he’s a total tool, Bonfire of the Vanities probably has a good case for being on the list

I just genuinely don’t get the fuss about Gatsby. I’m glad people like it, but there seem far, far better American novels.

Edit to add: And yes I did read it. Twice in fact, once in my late teens after I had read a lot of serious literature and thought it was ok but not great and then again in my late 30s because I was sure I must have missed something and was very disappointed to come to the conclusion that I really hadn’t.

I have two theories for why maybe people like it so much. Firstly, because the author is such a stylist and they get strung along by some of the prose. But when you read a truly jawdropping stylist like for example in my book Joyce or Virginia Woolf or Cormac Macarthy, F. Scott Fitzgerald really doesn’t stand well in that company.

Second theory (perhaps cynical) is that it’s the first novel in the US school syllabus that gets really serious literary criticism applied to it and so for a lot of people it is the book that awakens them to the power of literature. I could totally see that if you had a really great teacher introducing you to proper literature by means of the book you might love the experience and, because of that, the book.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#85

Post by noname123 »

Sprotch wrote: post #83
noname123 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Chinese-American, in my humble opinion the Great Gatsby is the 1920's version of "On the Road", "American Psycho" and "Liar's Poker". In another words, it is about the American spirit to chase money/success/glamour in spite of the protagonist's preconceived understanding that doing so would end up ultimately futile and empty. "Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgasmic future that year by year recedes befo…

I think there’s a nuance. Chasing the low millions, and therefore financial security and comfort, is not the same as chasing billions, which would be Gatsby territory

Banality of evil. Promotion-driven/mortgage driven development. NIBMY. But don't mind me, I'm guilty of this more than most people but IMHO I think at least it's important to acknowledge the culpability of the affluent 10% people vs. the 1%. IMHO, we are worse than the 1% for enabling this society.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#86

Post by yanhangyhy »

Exoristos wrote: post #74
yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

Ancestral Americans really do not have a "spiritual world," in my opinion, as acquisitiveness and power games suffuse even our churches, spiritual movements, and fraternal societies. The emptiness you delineate is very integral to the long-term American experience. As a reaction, addictive and manic personalities are endemic.

You reminded me of that experiment a social media influencer did earlier. American Christian churches refused to provide her with help, but other religions did.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#87

Post by yanhangyhy »

Sprotch wrote: post #75
yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

You are going to love Honore de Balzac and Emile Zola.

i definitely will give it a try

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#88

Post by yanhangyhy »

normie3000 wrote: post #78
yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

> My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe... Another is ... relentless struggle I feel like Russian literature touches on this.

I think there is, but not as stark as in the U.S.—the worldly success versus the spiritual “lack” is less contrasted.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#89

Post by JumpCrisscross »

I remember reading a take that Gasby could be read as mixed race, and that gives the story another dimension. (Probably unintended as the plain reading. But the absence of descriptors for Jay Gatsby alone implies this might have been something Fitzgerald toyed with.)

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#90

Post by yanhangyhy »

noname123 wrote: post #80
yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

As a Chinese-American, in my humble opinion the Great Gatsby is the 1920's version of "On the Road", "American Psycho" and "Liar's Poker". In another words, it is about the American spirit to chase money/success/glamour in spite of the protagonist's preconceived understanding that doing so would end up ultimately futile and empty. "Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgasmic future that year by year recedes befo…

I recently read an American novel that gave me a deeper insight into what you were saying. I don’t know its English title, but roughly translating the Chinese title back, it’s California Gold. It’s about the son of a miner who dreams of striking it rich; step by step he becomes a wealthy man in California. The story has some moral sense, too. It was probably a very popular novel in the U.S. at one point.

But I felt the ending was rather unsatisfying, because it simply stops after he succeeds—lacking the kind of depth we usually expect from a great novel. Yet I also think that’s part of the charm of American fiction: it’s simple, rough, and fun to read. Kind of like the original Godfather novel. Of course, the deeper aspects require other literary works to explore. I haven’t read much, so I’m not sure who in America does it best—maybe Faulkner? On the Road, The Great Gatsby… I read those in college, and even after all these years, the impression they left on me is unforgettable.

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