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Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

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Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#831
The reaction on HN to what just happened in Venezuela is exhausting and revealing. People who have never lived under socialism, communism, dictatorship, or military rule speak with total confidence while dismissing those who have.

More than 8 million Venezuelans have fled their country, one of the largest forced migrations in modern history. They are celebrating. You are being critical. That alone should give pause.

Those condemning this action (and almost defending the oppressors) have never:

  - Lived under a dictatorship where dissent leads to prison, torture, rape or disappearance
  - Watched the military and police become criminal enterprises
  - Seen private property and entire industries seized by the state, as happened under Chávez and Maduro
  - Experienced the collapse that follows decades of corruption, repression, and ideological control
Latin America knows this story well. Argentina, Chile, Cuba, Venezuela have followed different paths with the same outcomes: repression, exile, fear, and destroyed civil society. Venezuela didn’t “fail suddenly.” It was dismantled over decades through nationalization, purges, censorship, and military collusion with organized crime.

If you claim to care about migrants, human rights, or the oppressed, you cannot only care after people escape. You cannot oppose every serious attempt to end regimes that jail, torture, and kill their own citizens while calling yourself humanitarian. That is not morality, it’s distance.

Is oil involved? Of course. Venezuela’s oil industry, built with foreign investment, was expropriated, looted, and mismanaged into ruin. But this is also about state-backed criminal networks, narcotrafficking, and regional destabilization that have killed hundreds of thousands beyond Venezuela’s borders.

If you had lived under these conditions, if your family had been broken by fear, disappearance, or exile, you would not be citing abstract “international law” to defend your oppressors. You would be hoping, every night, that someone powerful enough would intervene.

What’s missing here isn’t compassion. It is context.

Before defending dictators from the safety of a functioning democracy, have the self-awareness to ask whether you understand the reality you’re judging. Otherwise what comes through isn’t moral clarity, it’s ignorance dressed up as virtue.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=venezuelan+cele...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=reacciones+de+v...

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#832
post #600

A lot of Venezuelans are happy about it. Maduro is not good for Venezuela. The US should not be the decider of who stays in power on another country. The president should not have the power to apprehend a countries president IN THEIR COUNTRY without a process thats more than just "I really want it". The US is giving another clear message that it does not care about global order, just global control. We're back in the…

I see a lot of people posting about a lot of Venezuelans being happy that Maduro is out, and many using that as providing moral justification for the action. But this seems murky to me. If say the majority of the US population would be happy if trump is gone, does that justify some other country coming in and kidnapping him (leave aside the ability and consequence of this)? It doesn't seem like it.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#833

It's time for you Americans to wake up. You're supporting the wrong things! National sovereignty is a fundamental principle of international law and cannot be selectively applied according to the interests of global powers. Donald Trump’s threats and aggressive rhetoric toward Venezuela undermine this principle by treating a nation’s self-determination as negotiable. Criticizing this stance does not mean endorsing th…

Forget it, man. Gringos just don't give a shit. You're preaching to the wind.

Do you know what will work? Money.

We need to increase our trade with China.

Latin America needs to stop depending on the U.S. and China is a golden opportunity.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#834
post #600

A lot of Venezuelans are happy about it. Maduro is not good for Venezuela. The US should not be the decider of who stays in power on another country. The president should not have the power to apprehend a countries president IN THEIR COUNTRY without a process thats more than just "I really want it". The US is giving another clear message that it does not care about global order, just global control. We're back in the…

So the US did the right thing for the wrong reasons and therefore it is bad? (not that I even agree with your premise).

Also I presume that it is not OK for the US to have its say on who stays in power in Venezuela, but it's OK for Cuba or Russia to do so?

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#837

It's funny how many people already see this as a book that is opened and closed on the same day. That's not how these things work. This is like the first stone of an avalanche. It could stop here, or it could roll on for quite a while. It will take months or even years to know whether or not the outcome here was desirable or not and what the final tally is. Remember the 'Arab spring' and what came after.

To me this is one of those situations where regardless of what happens in Venezuela, there were better, more morally and legally justifiable, ways of achieving the same end.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#839
post #726

I get slightly desperate realizing how people are lead to such naive discussions, even in a place with supposedly instructed, informed persons. Maduro may be a dictator, a murderer, whatever. This has absolutely no relation with the reasons for US invading, bombing and killing Venezuelans, or whichever country. For about a century, US has been doing it all over the world, not because they wanna live in a better, peac…

Based on where I was born and my background, I should not know as much as I do about Venezuela. Improbably, life led me to develop close ties to some Venezuelans, and with them as a window, I've learned a lot about that country.

In this case, the people of Venezuela are desperate to get rid of their socialist government. It has, predictably and inevitably, led them directly to poverty, starvation, and violent repression.

I have a lot of reservations about the way in which Trump is operating and in this case, the legality of every aspect of how he is doing this operation in Venezuela. Despite all those reservations, this is a rare situation where this action benefits everyone and the world.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#840
post #385

[flagged]

Main difference is that Russia is 1409 days into their 3 day "special operation" that has obviously become a war, while this looks like it was actually a special operation.

A "special operation" that makes hypocrites of every US official complaining that the EU is engaged in over-reach* and that EU has no sovereignty in the USA, but still it is success (at least with regard to the immediately stated objectives) that's the difference.

Long term, I expect this to be a colossal failure for the USA, the USA has a very poor record for pulling long term benefits out of this kind of action, and Trump is a sub-unity multiplier on that.

That said, if I was anyone in Mexico right now, I'd be worried by the rhetoric. There's things Mexico can do to prepare for this, that's not going to be any fun at all for the USA. I can see a big pile of dry tinder here waiting to ignite, but I don't want to suggest details because path dependency is a huge variable, e.g. consider that Trump himself could be impeached for all the Epstein stuff at fairly short notice by Republicans worried he's dragging them down in domestic polls.

* with regard to the EU telling Big Tech that certain content is not welcome within the EU. I mean, imagine if any EU nation did this to forcibly extradite Musk. Or if the UK did it for 4chan. I wouldn't cry over either, but I would definitely be shocked. And neither Musk nor 4chan's staff have diplomatic immunity.

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