I am not a C programmer but I always find these low level languages intriguing.
I am wondering though: when does one pick C3 for a task/problem?
The C3 Programming Language
51–60 of 270 posts
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#52Dumb question about contracts: I was reading the docs (https://c3-lang.org/language-common/contracts/) and this jumped out
"Contracts are optional pre- and post-condition checks that the compiler may use for static analysis, runtime checks and optimization. Note that conforming C3 compilers are not obliged to use pre- and post-conditions at all.
However, violating either pre- or post-conditions is unspecified behaviour, and a compiler may optimize code as if they are always true – even if a potential bug may cause them to be violated.
In safe mode, pre- and post-conditions are checked using runtime asserts."
So I'm probably missing something, but it reads to me like you're adding checks to your code, except there's no guarantee that they will run and whether it's at compile or runtime. And sometimes instead of catching a mistake, these checks will instead silently introduce undefined behaviour into your program. Isn't that kinda bad? How are you supposed to use this stuff reliably?
(otherwise C3 seems really cool!)
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#53This seems pretty neat! Still holding out for a language with Go's runtime and compilation and performance characteristics, but language syntax and semantics like Gleam... Maybe one day
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#54Dumb question about contracts: I was reading the docs ( https://c3-lang.org/language-common/contracts/ ) and this jumped out "Contracts are optional pre- and post-condition checks that the compiler may use for static analysis, runtime checks and optimization. Note that conforming C3 compilers are not obliged to use pre- and post-conditions at all. However, violating either pre- or post-conditions is unspecified behav…
It seems to me like a way to standardize what happens all the time anyway. Compilers are always looking for ways to optimize, and that generally means making assumptions. Specifying those assumptions in the code, instead of in flags to the compiler, seems like a win.
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#55" the C-like for programmers who like C." Sounds intriguing. But then, the first thing I noticed in their example is a double-colon scope operator. I understand that it's part of the culture (and Rust, C#, and many other languages), but I find the syntax itself ugly. I dunno. Maybe I have the visual equivalent of misophonia, in addition to the auditory version, but :: and x I like C. But I abhor C++ with a passion, p…
As a long time lisper I can't stand how much syntax languages have and I think of excess syntax as a sign of a childish mind, but what can you do?
As I get older, I realize that everybody's sweet spot is a little different.
Lisp and APL both have their adherents.
I personally find a bit more syntax than lisp to be nice. Occasionally I long for the homoiconicity of lisp; otoh, many of the arguments for it fall flat with me. For example, DSLs -- yeah, no, it's hard enough to get semi-technical people to use DSLs to start with, never mind lisp-like ones.
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#56We have solved the better C issue, but nobody seems keen on solving the better compiler issue Why do we still have to recompile the whole program everytime we make a change, the only project i am aware of who wants to tackle this is Zig with binary patching, and that's imo where we should focus our effort on.. C3 does look interesting tho, the idea of ABI compatibility with C is pretty ingenious, you get to tap into…
C3 doesn't have a recompile everything model, in fact it's pretty much designed around supporting separate compilation and dynamic linking (unlike Zig and Odin), it even supports Objective-C style dynamic calls.
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#57Dumb question about contracts: I was reading the docs ( https://c3-lang.org/language-common/contracts/ ) and this jumped out "Contracts are optional pre- and post-condition checks that the compiler may use for static analysis, runtime checks and optimization. Note that conforming C3 compilers are not obliged to use pre- and post-conditions at all. However, violating either pre- or post-conditions is unspecified behav…
It’s giving you an expression capability so that you can state your intent, in a standardized way, that other tooling can build off. But it’s recognizing that the degree of enforcement depends on applied context. A big company team might want to enforce them rigidly, but a widely used tool like Visual Studio would not want to prevent code from running, so that folks who are introducing themselves to the paradigm can start to see how it would work, through warnings, while still being able to run code.
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#58This seems pretty neat! Still holding out for a language with Go's runtime and compilation and performance characteristics, but language syntax and semantics like Gleam... Maybe one day
Borgo could be your thing? https://borgo-lang.github.io
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#59This is what a website for a programming language should look like.
I'd argue the opposite. My first thought once the page had loaded was that it looked childish and amateurish, the addition of a Discord chat link in the site navigation only reinforcing that perspective.
Re: The C3 Programming Language
#60Dumb question about contracts: I was reading the docs ( https://c3-lang.org/language-common/contracts/ ) and this jumped out "Contracts are optional pre- and post-condition checks that the compiler may use for static analysis, runtime checks and optimization. Note that conforming C3 compilers are not obliged to use pre- and post-conditions at all. However, violating either pre- or post-conditions is unspecified behav…
It’s giving you an expression capability so that you can state your intent, in a standardized way, that other tooling can build off. But it’s recognizing that the degree of enforcement depends on applied context. A big company team might want to enforce them rigidly, but a widely used tool like Visual Studio would not want to prevent code from running, so that folks who are introducing themselves to the paradigm can…
This is not just expressing intent. The documentation clearly states that it's UB to violate them, so you need to be extra careful when using them.