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Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

reuters.com

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Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#121
post #115

A lot of talk about how the administration didn't even try to justify this, but I think that the administration actually believes they did justify it. They exist in some bubble completely un-tethered from reality. I don't know what that means for the future but it's terrifying.

They don’t need to justify it because Americans who are upset don’t possess the wherewithal to hold them accountable.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#122
post #82

As someone old enough to have seen the US invade too many countries, I'm struck by the lack of effort put into justifying this sort of military action these days. There is going to be a lot of debate over whether this specific operation was legal and I have no idea where the courts or history will ultimately land on that decision. But the way they don't even try to convince us this is necessary anymore is a sign that…

To briefly quantify some things: US public support at the onset of the Afghanistan invasion polled at 88% [a]; at the onset of the Iraq invasion, 62%, rising to 72% [b]; and Venezuela here and now polls at 30% supporting "U.S. taking military action in Venezuela" [c] (Nov. 19–21 2025).

[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_public_opinion_o...

[b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_in_the_United_S...

[c] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-venezuela-u-s-military-act...

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#123
post #115

A lot of talk about how the administration didn't even try to justify this, but I think that the administration actually believes they did justify it. They exist in some bubble completely un-tethered from reality. I don't know what that means for the future but it's terrifying.

Un tethered from reality is hardly new. Ronald Reagan had his astrologer: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/reagan-familys-trusted... ; American politics has little to do with the "reality based community".

Nor is "US carries out murder campaign in Latin American country for unclear reasons"

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#125

Prediction: the regime will not fall. This will destabilize the country further, not so much the regime itself. There will be a decrease in oil production, marginally boosting world prices. What's probably being taken out right now is the regime's ability to react in any meaningful way to the oil embargo. It will also allow Maduro to throw his hands in the air and blame the US for all of VZLA's ills going forward. Mo…

Here's another prediction: the regime will fall, the invasion will prove breezy and popular among huge fraction of Venezuelans. Trump admin (which was hugely insecure about its actual strength) will be bolstered and do some really really stupid thing next.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#126
Before anyone starts telling us how they are attacking a legitimate president and that the people will defend it, take your time to find your closest Venezuelan (there are 8 million around the world, so don't need to look to far) and ask him how he feels about this, you will find that happy is part of their emotions.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#127

Hard to draw conclusions from early reports like this. Situations involving explosions tend to generate a lot of noise before verified facts emerge, especially in politically tense environments. Best to wait for confirmation on cause, scale, and impact before speculating, and hopefully accurate information follows quickly.

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Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#128
post #115

A lot of talk about how the administration didn't even try to justify this, but I think that the administration actually believes they did justify it. They exist in some bubble completely un-tethered from reality. I don't know what that means for the future but it's terrifying.

I imagine the calculus goes something like "unjustified war didn't matter any of the other times, so it won't matter this time either". Although this time the US would be bringing death and destruction to its own continent so there is a moral improvement on what they normally do and that will probably going to make the war more of a political problem for Trump.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#130

Before anyone starts telling us how they are attacking a legitimate president and that the people will defend it, take your time to find your closest Venezuelan (there are 8 million around the world, so don't need to look to far) and ask him how he feels about this, you will find that happy is part of their emotions.

Are they Venezuelans living in Venezuela? I think the ones you have to worry about are the ones still living there.

Additionally, might it be that every dictatorship is hated by most expatriates? I think that that was the case for the 2 (or 3) countries that the neo-cons invaded, and I don't remember any of those invasions turning out well. Reckless.

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