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What you need to know before touching a video file

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Re: What you need to know before touching a video file

#42
post #28

Really good quickstart guide

>Really good quickstart guide It really isn't. You have to scroll 75% of the way through the document before you it tells you what to actually type in. Everything before (9000+ words) is just ranty exposition that might be relevant, but is hardly "quick".

Nah, see, I maintain a commercial video platform, and half the battle is people typing things in before they understand what a codec is. Theory first, practice after.

Re: What you need to know before touching a video file

#44

I'm always amazed when I see how many people are unfamiliar with VLC hate. It was notorious (to the point of it being a popular meme topic) for video artifacts, slow/buggy seeking, bloated/clumsy UI/menus, having very little format support out of the box, and buggy subtitles. I assume nowadays it's much better, since it seems popular, but its reputation will stick with me forever.

I've never had problems with VLC, and I've used it off and on for 20 years. I don't doubt that there's some obscure, elite videophile hate towards it, but I'm hardly going to stop using it because a few random internet strangers hate on it.

Kinda the problem with anecdotes isn't it? :)

My own anecdotal experience with VLC was that while every update fixed something, they also broke something in return - and these updates were common. This got annoying enough at some point for me to hop ships, and so I switched to mpc-hc and never looked back.

I've since also tried (and keep trying) the to-me still newfangled mpv, but I'm not a fan of the GUI or the keybinds. I know it can be customized, but that's not something I'm interested in doing. I know there are alternative frontends as well, but I checked and they're not to my liking either. So I mostly just use it for when mpc-hc gives out, such as really badly broken media files, or anything HDR.

Re: What you need to know before touching a video file

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had problems with VLC, and I've used it off and on for 20 years. I don't doubt that there's some obscure, elite videophile hate towards it, but I'm hardly going to stop using it because a few random internet strangers hate on it.

Kinda the problem with anecdotes isn't it? :) My own anecdotal experience with VLC was that while every update fixed something, they also broke something in return - and these updates were common. This got annoying enough at some point for me to hop ships, and so I switched to mpc-hc and never looked back. I've since also tried (and keep trying) the to-me still newfangled mpv, but I'm not a fan of the GUI or the keyb…

And you think everybody else should stop using it because you had problems?

I'll make up my own mind on it.

Re: What you need to know before touching a video file

#46
Something I've never been able to find satisfactory information on (and unfortunately this article also declares it out of scope), is what is the actual hard on-the-wire and on-disk differences between SDR and HDR? Like yes, I know HDR = high dynamic range = bigger difference between light and dark, but what technical changes were needed to accomplish this?

The way I understand it, we've got the YCbCr that is being converted to an RGB value which directly corresponds to how bright we drive the R, G, and B subpixels. So wouldn't the entire range already be available? As in, post-conversion to RGB you've got 256 levels for each channel which can be anywhere from 0 to 255 or 0% to 100%? We could go to 10-bit color which would then give you finer control with 1024 levels per channel instead of 256, but you still have the same range of 0% to 100%. Does the YCbCr -> RGB conversion not use the full 0-255 range in RGB?

Naturally, we can stick brighter backlights in our monitors to make the difference between light and dark more significant, but that wouldn't change the on-disk or on-the-wire formats. Those formats have changed (video files are specifically HDR or SDR and operating systems need to support HDR to drive HDR monitors), so clearly I am missing something but all of my searches only find people comparing the final image without digging into the technical details behind the shift. Anyone care to explain or have links to a good source of information on the topic?

Re: What you need to know before touching a video file

#47

"Don't use Topaz AI, Anime4k, RealESRGAN, RIFE, etc. Trust me, just don't." Why? I only know Topaz and I always thought it had its narrow but legitimate uses cases for upscaling and equalizing quality?

Can't mind read the guy obviously, but the usual motivation that I'm aware of is that you pretty much fuck over everyone else that comes later. Upscalers improve over time, but in terms of distribution, recency bias is strong and visual treats are inviting. So when those much better upscalers eventually come around, what's more likely to still be available is the secondary source you distributed, which is already upscaled once with a then-inferior upscaler. This leads to a form of generational rot.

Other likely explanations are:

- them not liking how these upscalers look: you can imagine if they can nitpick minor differences between different encodes that most people don't notice, they'll hate the glaring artifacts these filters usually produce

- boycotting AI

Re: What you need to know before touching a video file

#48

I'm always amazed when I see how many people are unfamiliar with VLC hate. It was notorious (to the point of it being a popular meme topic) for video artifacts, slow/buggy seeking, bloated/clumsy UI/menus, having very little format support out of the box, and buggy subtitles. I assume nowadays it's much better, since it seems popular, but its reputation will stick with me forever.

Do you have sources for that? As far as I know VLC has actually always been famous for supporting basically every format.

Re: What you need to know before touching a video file

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda the problem with anecdotes isn't it? :) My own anecdotal experience with VLC was that while every update fixed something, they also broke something in return - and these updates were common. This got annoying enough at some point for me to hop ships, and so I switched to mpc-hc and never looked back. I've since also tried (and keep trying) the to-me still newfangled mpv, but I'm not a fan of the GUI or the keyb…

And you think everybody else should stop using it because you had problems? I'll make up my own mind on it.

Where did perching_aix say that?

Re: What you need to know before touching a video file

#50
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the anime fan subbing community (which this document is likely from), it's very common to hate on VLC for a variety of imagined (and occasionally real but marginal) issues.

Why is that?

At least for the real part there was the great 10-bit encoding "switch off" at around 2012 where it seemed like the whole anime encoding scene decided to move into encoding just about everything with "10-bit h264" in order to preserve more detail at the same bitrate. VLC didn't have support for it and for a long time (+5 years?) it remained without proper support for that. Every time you tried playing such files they would exhibit corruption at some interval. It was like watching a scrambled cable channel with brief moments of respite.

The kicker is that many, many other players broke. Very few hardware decoders could deal with this format, so it was fairly common to get dropped frames due to software decoding fallback even if your device or player could play it. And, about devices, if you were previously playing h264 anime stuff on your nice pre-smart tv, forget about doing so with the 10-bit stuff.

Years passed and most players could deal with 10-bit encoding, people bought newer devices that could hardware decode it and so on, but afaik VLC remained incompatible a while longer.

Eventually it all became mutt because the anime scene switched to h265...

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