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iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

developer.apple.com

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Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#91

Post by crazygringo »

leptons wrote: post #88
crazygringo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people will figure that out and adapt for themselves No they won't. People on HN will. Not the average person. > Security-wise, the sandbox should limit damage to within the browser The problem is, arbitrary code execution vastly expands the risks. Your "should" is doing all the work there. > Standardization, eh? Forcing Safari on iOS and not making it available on the mass market platforms Huh? Apple follows web s…

>> people will figure that out and adapt for themselves >No they won't. People on HN will. Not the average person. Yes they will, Apple has made it very easy to see. To check iOS app power usage, go to Settings > Battery, where you'll see a breakdown of battery consumption by app for the last 24 hours or 10 days, showing usage time and background activity, allowing you to identify power-hungry apps and manage setting…

> go to Settings > Battery, where you'll see a breakdown of battery consumption by app

And what percentage of users do you think ever check that, or even know it's there to check?

> If that's a problem for web browsers, then it's a problem for every single app in the app store.

No it's not, the app store disallows arbitrary code execution.

> There's nothing really unique about a web browser app that makes it more risky than any other app.

Yes there is -- JavaScript.

> Javascript is already very much sandboxed.

...by Safari. It wouldn't be if you allowed any developer to write their own JavaScript interpreter as part of their own browser.

> If web standards are standards, then let other web browsers on iOS.

That's a non-sequitur.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#92

Post by crazygringo »

aryonoco wrote: post #77
crazygringo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to put a stranglehold on innovations on the web I think that's the hypothetical part, it's not reality. Safari continues to be a fully modern browser. It doesn't release new features quite as fast as Chrome, but it does generally adopt them. If Apple were attempting to put a "stranglehold on innovations on the web", Safari's feature set would look very different. But that's not what's happening. Like I said, Apple…

Safari is the modern IE. the fact that PWAs didn’t take off in the last decade js purely due to Safari. The only reason Apple has banned alternative engines and continues to hold back on major web technologies is anticompetitive behaviour.

> Safari is the modern IE.

That's not true. It's not even available on most computers. IE was about Microsoft not following web standards and abusing its monopoly position; Safari is a minor browser by overall market share and is broadly standards-compliant.

> the fact that PWAs didn’t take off in the last decade js purely due to Safari.

So then why aren't PWA's super-popular on Windows and on Android? Since Safari doesn't affect those?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#93

Post by travisgriggs »

GaryBluto wrote: post #69

I'm surprised Apple haven't thrown in the towel and opened things up worldwide yet. It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another.

This. It’s computation. Computation doesn’t really “get” geopolitical borders.

I’m so sick of the ever increasing variances between the different “store” offerings in different regions of the world. Seems like every time I push an update (every month or so), I have to answer updated questions and declarations, often relative to different parts of the world.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#94

Post by dmazzoni »

creato wrote: post #25
hu3 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Documentation to guide devs on safe usage of C++ is enough? So any language should be allowed as long as they instruct developers to be careful.

I don't know if they do this, but those conventions could be enforced by a tool.

Yes, in WebKit, SaferCPP guidelines are enforced by a static analysis tool.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#95

Post by overfeed »

GaryBluto wrote: post #69

I'm surprised Apple haven't thrown in the towel and opened things up worldwide yet. It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another.

> It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another

They will continue to do so for as long as it remains profitable. Navigating the complexities of multiple jurisdictions is the bread and butter of MNCs - it's the price of admission into the multinational club. Apple is guaranteed to have lawyers, admins, and executives already on the payroll for this task.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#96

Post by yokoprime »

drnick1 wrote: post #11

2026 should be the year when every tech-minded person dumps Apple (and Google) for good and either starting running either a free Android OS (Graphene, Lineage or a couple of other variants) or a Linux phone. At this point, Apple and Google devices are nothing more than instruments of coercion and mass surveillance.

Making "tech-minded persons" dump apple etc does NOTHING to move the needle in terms of what most people use.

For example I'm running a pretty sweet calibre-web automated setup with Kobo readers. Ive changed the storefront on my kobo and have seemless sync OTA of selected shelves. And even I struggle to get my wife to choose that setup over Amazon kindle. The very minute there is a single snag, normies (sorry wife dear) lose interest.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#97

Post by Klonoar »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #24
dekoidal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn’t on Macs. Safari is still popular among non-tech folk

That’s because Apple adds two extra legs to Safari on OS level and cuts both the legs of other browsers in a manner of speaking by rigging this comparison.

This needs a big ol’ “citation needed” slapped across it.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#98

Post by hypeatei »

GaryBluto wrote: post #69

I'm surprised Apple haven't thrown in the towel and opened things up worldwide yet. It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another.

I've always thought the same. Obviously there isn't much of a technical hurdle since they have the engineering talent. But, keeping track of all these cross-region rules and training your staff+customers on it has to be quite costly in multiple respects (time, energy, mental models, etc.)

My personal opinion is that keeping the browser engine locked down isn't much of a profit generator, unlike maintaining full reign over the app store would be.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#99

Post by viktorcode »

rorylawless wrote: post #33

My hope for laws such as the ones Japan and the EU enacted was that companies would see the writing on the wall and change their practices worldwide, if only for cost reasons (it presumably being more expensive to maintain multiple sets of rules.) However, these companies are now so large that they can choose to absorb any inefficiencies on a country-by-country basis.

And what's your opinion if the law would oblige the companies to remove features their products have like tracking transparency popups? Two countries' courts already fined Apple for enforcing a popup that warns users about tracking across third party apps (a feature Apple themselves do not use)?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#100

Post by giancarlostoro »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #4

I know this isn't new for Japan, but this requirement caught my eye: > Use memory-safe programming languages, or features that improve memory safety within other languages, within the alternative web browser engine at a minimum for all code that processes web content Would Apple themselves meet this requirement? Isn't WebKit C++? Of course, I'm not sure what would be considered "features that improve memory safety wi…

I do wonder how long before Apple either replaces WebKit with something built in Swift, or starts slowly converting their browser engine to Swift.
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