iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#61

Post by concinds » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:32 PM UTC

signal11 wrote: post #6

shmerl wrote: post #3

Did Japan decide to push proper competition laws? Time to force Apple to do it everywhere. Very long overdue.

I agree with the “enforce competition laws” sentiment, but in this context, enforced naively , all it’ll do is entrench the dominant browser engine, Blink, even more across the mobile ecosystem. I’m sure some devs will love this. But equally, some may worry about the monoculture implications.

The "monoculture" has never been less of a threat. WPT.FYI is driving towards asymptotically perfect compatibility and behavior. And the real web, the long-tail of websites, is too chaotic to be controlled by any entity regardless of browser market share. Chrome can cook up whatever API they want, no website can be forced to adopt it. And if someone can't use some WebMIDI site on Safari, well, they can't complain, they didn't want that site to exist in the first place.

It's simply not a good excuse to defend the iOS browser ban.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#62

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:33 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #34

IlikeKitties wrote: post #2

[flagged]

iOS users love that Apple curates software for them.

[deleted]

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#63

Post by ckcheng » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:35 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #31

Does this mean we'll finally have "real" firefox with support for ublock origin on iOS?

FYI. iOS Safari already supports uBlock Origin Lite. iOS Firefox can do the same anytime but it already has some tracking and content blocking built in too.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#64

Post by argsnd » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:35 PM UTC

crossroadsguy wrote: post #24

dekoidal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn’t on Macs. Safari is still popular among non-tech folk

That’s because Apple adds two extra legs to Safari on OS level and cuts both the legs of other browsers in a manner of speaking by rigging this comparison.

In what way do you think this is meaningfully occurring? I ask because I have not heard of Chrome or Firefox being inhibited on energy efficiency by platform limitations.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#65

Post by gumby271 » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:36 PM UTC

It's so disappointing to be fed crumbs like this instead of seeing real consumer protection laws put in place. Let users install software on their computers outside of what the manufacturer permits, why focus on browsers and "app stores"?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#66

Post by otterley » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:38 PM UTC

greiskul wrote: post #49

crazygringo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many things Apple does that have anticompetitive motivations, but the browser engine doesn't seem like one of them. It's genuinely about security and battery life and standardization. So if cost was never the reason in the first place, cost is not going to be the reason to change.

It is literally done for strategic reasons to put a stranglehold on innovations on the web, so that there is no risk of web app technology developing to a point to threaten the dominance of native apps and the app store. Anybody that thinks otherwise is hopeless naive, Steve Jobs himself envisioned a web app future as the future of technology; before Apple found out the gold mine that the app store became.

> Anybody that thinks otherwise is hopeless naive

This is inappropriate. People can reasonably disagree without being insulting to each other.

If you have concrete evidence that Apple is deliberately withholding some essential advancement in Safari or its support for Web standards so that it can sell more apps, by all means, cite it.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#67

Post by crazygringo » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:39 PM UTC

greiskul wrote: post #49

crazygringo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many things Apple does that have anticompetitive motivations, but the browser engine doesn't seem like one of them. It's genuinely about security and battery life and standardization. So if cost was never the reason in the first place, cost is not going to be the reason to change.

It is literally done for strategic reasons to put a stranglehold on innovations on the web, so that there is no risk of web app technology developing to a point to threaten the dominance of native apps and the app store. Anybody that thinks otherwise is hopeless naive, Steve Jobs himself envisioned a web app future as the future of technology; before Apple found out the gold mine that the app store became.

> to put a stranglehold on innovations on the web

I think that's the hypothetical part, it's not reality. Safari continues to be a fully modern browser. It doesn't release new features quite as fast as Chrome, but it does generally adopt them.

If Apple were attempting to put a "stranglehold on innovations on the web", Safari's feature set would look very different. But that's not what's happening.

Like I said, Apple does lots of anticompetitive things. I'm not blind to what they do with the app store. I just don't think that the single browser engine policy is motivated by this, or has much effect on it, given how Apple does keep maintaining Safari as a modern browser.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#68

Post by leptons » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:39 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #29

dekoidal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn’t on Macs. Safari is still popular among non-tech folk

I think the narrative is that once developers have the option to tell all of their users "we only support Chrome, just install Chrome" then any support for Safari will dry up. Unfortunately I don't think we will see if this is how it plays out until Apple has to allow other browsers globally.

The reason Apple doesn't allow any other browser engines on iOS is due to them collecting up to 30% of purchases made through the apps from the app store. If a developer can do the same things with a capable web browser, then they won't need to create a native iOS app and that cuts into Apple's app revenue. So Apple purposely hobbles Safari so it doesn't have any advanced browser APIs for stuff like bluetooth or other APIs that apps have access to, forcing developers to create an app, where Apple can then cut into purchases made through the app.

It has nothing to do with people no longer using Safari and Apple being sad about that. Other browsers can technically be installed on iOS, but the underlying browser engine is forced to be Safari, which lacks many APIs other web browsers could implement, reducing the need for a native app. It's purely Apple's anti-competitive greed that drives this situation. And the EU, Japan, and the US DOJ have noticed. So far only the EU and Japan have actually taken measures to force Apple to change this.

Here's the entire DOJ lawsuit which includes many other instances of anti-competitive practices by Apple.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/media/1344546/dl?inline

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#69

Post by GaryBluto » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:41 PM UTC

I'm surprised Apple haven't thrown in the towel and opened things up worldwide yet. It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#70

Post by apples_oranges » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 6:42 PM UTC

GaryBluto wrote: post #69

I'm surprised Apple haven't thrown in the towel and opened things up worldwide yet. It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another.

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