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Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com

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Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#171

Post by DiskoHexyl »

vidarh wrote: post #156
DiskoHexyl wrote: post #146

Age: 22+-3 AND with that weight to ffbm ratio not only untrained, but at least slightly (I’m being generous here) overweight. With these pre-requisites it almost doesn’t matter what kind of physical activity one does- the muscles will grow anyway. It’s when you are older and/or accustomed to some kind of physical training, that you really noticeably benefit from resistance training. And still, that ‘almost’ part does…

> I understand the complexity and difficulty of researching the subject, but this entire article is no good and is hardly applicable to most of the population IMO Most of the population is untrained, and in many countries a majority is overweight. I don't think your concern about "correctly assessing their 1RM" matters either - if anything that means the loads are even lower relative to actual 1RM, and their subjects…

That is exactly the issue with incorrectly gauging 1rm- if it’s too low, than the supposed ‘resistance’ training with 70-80% of 1rm isn’t actually that.

Is it fair to compare A to B, when the A in question isn’t exactly an A, but rather something closer to B?

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#172

Post by mnky9800n »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #66
mnky9800n wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I would definitely notice if I went from 12 to 25 reps on any exercise I do. Although typically I max out at 8 before adding more weight.

> I feel like I would definitely notice if I went from 12 to 25 reps on any exercise I do. To be clear, the implication is that 12 and 25 have different weights so they tire you the same amount. Do you think it would be a very strongly felt difference in that situation? What would the difference feel like?

Yes, this is why classic body builders like high reps because they get the pump but you can get the same growth (and there’s lots of research saying more) with training to failure with low reps and high weight but it doesn’t give you the pump.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#173

Post by orleyhuxwell »

throwaway713 wrote: post #113
AstroBen wrote: post #34

> Healthy, recreationally active but untrained young males Yeah this is why. Anything you do as an untrained person is going to get you newbie gains. It's just really easy to improve initially. Doesn't mean it'll work after the first 6 months

[flagged]

Yeah, that's pretty much it. The counterarguments don't address what AstroBen noted.: newbies get high gains from any kind of stimulus. The paper has simply confirmed the common knowledge teached in universities.

The problem is, after you are no longer a newbie you may train for years with very little progress, and that's when you need to start differenting stimulus, being strategic about it - otherwise you may stay stuck.

And unfortunately the paper doesn't address or refute that, while it's coverage (or even the title of this hackernews) may suggest otherwise.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#174

Post by hunter-gatherer »

matwood wrote: post #164
raducu wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not the mass used. Completely anecdotal, but when I was 18, in highschool, I trained in the gym in my hometown, supervised with a trainer, 12 reps per muscle group, very modest gains. I move to university, start reading a fitness forum where people were saying do max 6 reps if you want big gains. I also started supplementing with whey protein, and within 3 months the gains were spectacular, everybody noticed, I fel…

> People who had enough breath left in them to chat in the gym simply did not gain as much as people I saw as training hard. IDK. When I powerlifted the goal was to move the weight. I've almost passed out from heavy deadlifts, but was rarely out of breath. I also almost never chat in the gym because it's my meditative place, not because I couldn't chat :)

I think what OP is specifically refering to is the intensity level that varies among individuals. I suspect that oft times when people train with a low weight/high rep scheme, they accidenrly let their intensity levels slip. I suspect that for most people, especially newer lifters, doing a high weight/low rep scheme makes keeping the workout for intense because it is easier to focus on being intense for a short time. Just a thought....

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#175

Post by MarcelOlsz »

samiv wrote: post #170

As a natty bodybuilder for over 30 years for anyone aspiring towards fitness and starting at the gym my most important advice is "Put the phone away and bust some ass" I see way too many people (the great majority) completely sabotage their training by putting the weights down when it starts to get hard and get on their phone. When the weights get hard is when the real set begins. If you don't do the hard reps you de…

This is why having a buddy/spotter is so important. On every lift my friend spotted me an extra 3-4 reps that I would not be able to do if I went just myself and kept going until the last rep was 95% him and 5% me. First guy to automate spotting is an instant billionaire.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#176

Post by bschwarz »

sethammons wrote: post #165
Moto7451 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. When I was in my best shape my deadlift and squat were in/on the way to 2.5-3x my body weight . You don’t want to fail that without a lot of help and safeties. Note for the uninitiated: That figure is not even impressive or competitive with competition lifters. This is just “guy who put in the time and work” numbers.

Look up lifts and weight multiples and a 3x weight deadlift is advanced to elite. https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift/lb

Be sure to not take strengthlevel.com too seriously.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#177

Post by samiv »

MarcelOlsz wrote: post #175
samiv wrote: post #170

As a natty bodybuilder for over 30 years for anyone aspiring towards fitness and starting at the gym my most important advice is "Put the phone away and bust some ass" I see way too many people (the great majority) completely sabotage their training by putting the weights down when it starts to get hard and get on their phone. When the weights get hard is when the real set begins. If you don't do the hard reps you de…

This is why having a buddy/spotter is so important. On every lift my friend spotted me an extra 3-4 reps that I would not be able to do if I went just myself and kept going until the last rep was 95% him and 5% me. First guy to automate spotting is an instant billionaire.

Depending on the exercise you can also do this without a spotter.

Either do cheat reps and focus on the negative (works with small exercise such as bicep curls) or drop set or super set.

My personal fav is the cheat and negative and I do it a lot for example in cable pulldown. Use a bit of bodyweight to pull it down and then 5s negative.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#178

Post by samiv »

kombine wrote: post #134
armcat wrote: post #4

I thought it was already well understood/researched that it's not the weights that matter, but effectively taking your sets to muscular failure. While one might think "I can do 50 reps with low weights" there is practical aspects to this - you don't wand to spend hours at the gym, and doing heavy weights at 5-7 reps is sufficient as long as you are close or at muscular failure.

Training to failure for me personally only brought injury and set back my progress by weeks.

If you were a newbie just getting started.. the ligaments and tendons take much longer to strengthen than the muscle. So the muscles getting stronger will outpace the connective tissue.

Second potential issue is too much training vrt recovery.

A good way to add safety margin when training to failure is to reduce the weights and slow down the exercise and increase the time under load.

For example bench press, do 5s down (eccentric), 5s pause (isometric) and then (optionally) 5s press (concentric). Your weights will go way down because this exercise will be so hard. But the stress on the joints and ligaments will be reduced.

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