Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 134 posts

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#51

Post by lotsofpulp »

lenkite wrote: post #49
lotsofpulp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Providing a chain of reasoning to support a logical conclusion is not “pro bono PR for those companies”. Claiming that someone doing that seems like an emotional kneejerk reaction to an idea that does not jive with the model of the world you would like to have. I even provided an example of a healthcare provider choosing to be more transparent. It is always Eli Lilly’s choice to sell their medicine at a flat price to…

> it has a problem of supply being nowhere near demand, Get rid of the patents and this will solve itself in no time. > The insurance company has no hand in this. False. Insurance companies in the US own stock in big pharma firms like Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, etc. They maintain substantial investment portfolios and generate returns on premiums and reserves. They also have voting rights as institutional i…

Yes, no one is stopping US (or other countries’) taxpayers from paying for all the drug trials so that the resulting medicines are in the public domain.

> False. Insurance companies in the US own stock in big pharma firms like Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, etc. They maintain substantial investment portfolios and generate returns on premiums and reserves. They also have voting rights as institutional investors.

This is a wild assertion. The sum total of all 7 publicly listed insurance companies’ market caps is less than Eli Lilly, just one pharmaceutical company. I would need some evidence before believing that health insurance company leaders have any influence on pharmaceutical companies.

I would also be surprised to learn insurance companies hold specific stocks, seems like a risk insurance companies would not take, especially ones that have lots of routine cash expenses. They spend ~85% of their premiums on medical expenses, and probably at least 5% to 10% on their own staff, so they shouldn’t even have much extra cash left to invest for the long term.

https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-expertise/insights/2023/mar/...

Edit: hit posting limit, so to respond to comment below about net income, that Yale link does not seem relevant as it is for all healthcare companies. All 7 publicly listed insurers’ combined annual net income is $35B or less for the previous 20 years, at a profit margin of 3% or less, which is peanuts. The pharmaceutical companies earn much more money than them, which is why the pharmaceutical companies have higher market caps.

> Why are we using market cap as a metric ? Look at investment value.

Because a company that owns influential portions of another company would have that reflected in their market cap. Like Berkshire Hathaway does. with the exception of UNH (due to its healthcare provider business), the other insurance companies are relatively tiny businesses compared to pharmaceutical companies and so cannot be holding any influential amount of stock.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#52

Post by evilkorn »

weslleyskah wrote: post #48
itsdrewmiller wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are available in America too

So this must be worldwide. It seems like the patents held by big pharma are the root of the corruption. What is the guarantee here? That the chemicals are pure, or just that the companies are getting their cut?

Generic is the English word for it. The brand name drugs have a limited time patent and they are supposed to help cover the initial research and development costs of bringing that drug to market.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#53

Post by dylan604 »

weslleyskah wrote: post #36
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #4

"Rome said the companies seem to be maximizing prices while negotiating discounts behind the scenes with health and drug insurers and then setting yet another price for direct-to-consumer cash-pay sales." This describes the biggest problem in US healthcare. No clear and consistent pricing. If we had a real market, you would get a prescription and then go to the seller with the lowest price. And everybody would get th…

Here in Brazil, we have something called 'Genéricos.' These are essentially the same medications as the brand-name versions, produced with the same chemical ingredients, but they often cost half the price, sometimes even cheaper than that. Insanely comical.

Now look into the places that manufacture these generic versions. Not all factories are equal, and some are not of the best of reputations.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#54

Post by nubg »

itsdrewmiller wrote: post #41
weslleyskah wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Brazil, we have something called 'Genéricos.' These are essentially the same medications as the brand-name versions, produced with the same chemical ingredients, but they often cost half the price, sometimes even cheaper than that. Insanely comical.

Those are available in America too

That's what he said. Brazil is in (South) America.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#55

Post by olyjohn »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #19
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #4

"Rome said the companies seem to be maximizing prices while negotiating discounts behind the scenes with health and drug insurers and then setting yet another price for direct-to-consumer cash-pay sales." This describes the biggest problem in US healthcare. No clear and consistent pricing. If we had a real market, you would get a prescription and then go to the seller with the lowest price. And everybody would get th…

Last year I needed to get blood work done, some of which may or may not be covered. It took me two weeks, dozens of phone calls, and multiple "escalations" to learn what would be covered and what the price would be if it wasn't Totally insane. The kicker is that after all that, the price I was billed wasn't even the price I was given (thankfully it was less though).

I just had some bloodwork done, myself. My provider accidentally billed insurance, which had lapsed due to being laid off. I got my "Explanation of benefits" and it was $1000 billed to them, but I was given a $500 "discount." So I only owed $500... Cash cost was $50. Makes no goddamn sense.

Also I went in for a colonoscopy and an endoscopy. Insurance was billed for $14000. I got statements from 4 different doctors, and the facility where it was performed. None of the statements matched the explanation of benefits from the insurance company. And when I called each doctor, to pay them, they all told me that I didn't actually have to pay them what it said I owed. So I just ended up paying $2500 to the insurance company. It again, makes zero sense.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#56

Post by BiteCode_dev »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #35
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not like IT where the Americans are completely dominant and clearly superior. The European pharma companies are doing more than fine, despite their main market being heavily regulated and price-controlled. The less charitable explanation is that US companies want to charge outrageous prices, and the American system let them to, so they do it. That's what the USA are: a machine to prioritize profits over peopl…

Many of those European pharma companies do most of their work and make most of their money in the US.

While it's true that the exposure of top European firms can be often 50%+ of total revenue from U.S, that:

- Doesn't make them non viable without the American market, just less rich.

- Doesn't reflect the 5 to 10 times higher price Americans pay for the same drugs.

You can have a healthy industries with plenty of billions to be around and have decently priced drugs.

What you get in the US is uber profitable industries and people scrapping around.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#57

Post by angarg12 »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #4

"Rome said the companies seem to be maximizing prices while negotiating discounts behind the scenes with health and drug insurers and then setting yet another price for direct-to-consumer cash-pay sales." This describes the biggest problem in US healthcare. No clear and consistent pricing. If we had a real market, you would get a prescription and then go to the seller with the lowest price. And everybody would get th…

As a european living in the US, the idea there is a market at all is laughable. I tried to get price quotes for treatments several time just to get a "well, it's hard to say" or "it's very complicated".

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#58

Post by ebiester »

weslleyskah wrote: post #48
itsdrewmiller wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are available in America too

So this must be worldwide. It seems like the patents held by big pharma are the root of the corruption. What is the guarantee here? That the chemicals are pure, or just that the companies are getting their cut?

Generics can only be made after the patent expires. And due to pressure from western countries, these are enforced worldwide.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#59

Post by dylan604 »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #4

"Rome said the companies seem to be maximizing prices while negotiating discounts behind the scenes with health and drug insurers and then setting yet another price for direct-to-consumer cash-pay sales." This describes the biggest problem in US healthcare. No clear and consistent pricing. If we had a real market, you would get a prescription and then go to the seller with the lowest price. And everybody would get th…

> "Rome said the companies seem to be maximizing prices while negotiating discounts behind the scenes with health and drug insurers and then setting yet another price for direct-to-consumer cash-pay sales."

This sounds like typical negotiating 101. You know you are going to be forced to lower from your starting position, so increase your starting position so when you do negotiate down you are closer to where you wanted to be.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#60

Post by tokai »

KumaBear wrote: post #6
mistrial9 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

big Pharma has properties unlike many other business. The R&D is very, very expensive and, income is not directly related to expenses each year. The natural "moat" is such that only a relatively few, giant and wealthy, companies exist over time. ref- The Billion Dollar Molecule

Why does the US consumer of said medications subsidize many other countries who have access to the same medications for a fraction of the US sticker price?

Americans really love to tell themselves they are paying for others. You victimize yourselves, and then blame externalities. Fix you own issues.
Post reply on HN