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Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#81
post #77
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a defensive weapon. You might be tempted to say "what about a missile shield?" but such a thing allows the owner to act with impunity with levels of violence we arguably haven't seen since 1945. As a real example of this, the only reason a deeper conflict didn't develop with Iran this year was because Iran demonstrated they could overwhelm the various layers of Israel's missile shield and Ir…

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#82

From Rafael’s site: https://www.rafael.co.il/system/iron-beam/ 100kW laser is nothing to joke about, but seems a good application for anti drone tasks. Fiber lasers are pretty snazzy.

It's quiet the power requirement. I wonder how long it has to focus on a drone to eliminate it. Like how long is this thing consuming 100kW?

Huh, to what degree is this technology gatekept by battery advances?

A few decades ago lasers were dismissed because they involved chemical reagents for high power and explosive capacitors for even low-power applications.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#83
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they afforded the same rights as jewish israelis? What about Gazans and West Bank palestenians whose families came from elsewhere in the earlier Palestine and were driven out to these areas, now living in terrible conditions. For simplicity lets pretend it is Sep 2023 for this argument, as the conditions were terrible then, due to Israels policies.

If all the money poured into conserving status quo was spent on creating better conditions for Palestinian refugees in any of the independent Arab states, Middle East would be a much quieter place

> If all the money poured into conserving status quo was spent on creating better conditions for Palestinian refugees in any of the independent Arab states

Easier said than done. The chaos the PLO caused in Jordan and Lebanon [1] raises legitimate security concerns for any country asked to accept large numbers of Palestinian refugees.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat...

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#84
post #72
post #35

It is so sad the Humanity needs to develop weapons...

On the last day of the year, I am taking a few minutes to linger on this. At face value, most would agree with this, myself included. But I think we can dive one layer deeper. There are different schools of thoughts whether mankind is inherently good or evil. Over the years, I have become pretty firm believer that every person has the innate capacity for both good and evil, and the outcome is determined by both chara…

I totally understand the need for weapons. It is just makes me sad.

And I think Solzhenitsyn is wrong. There are psychopathic people that have no good in their hearts. Sure, with the right upbringing that could be kind and good but at a given moment they are what they are... psychopaths.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#85

Personally I think that defensive technology like this is fantastic. It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones. Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. Outside the Middle East there's many areas threatened by combatants with similar cheap missiles. P…

Three thoughts:

1. Just to repeat myself from another comment on this thread, there is no such thing as a defensive weapon. Were it not for the various missile shields, the Israeli state wouldn't act with wanton abandon against its own citizens and its neighbours. All of the various war crimes and terror attacks are a direct consequence of the effectiveness of a "defensive" missile shield.

Let me pose this question to you: if these were purely defensive technologies, why don't we give them to everyone, including the Palestinians? and

2. Israel has already ruled out giving Ukraine the anti-missile (and assumedly anti-drone) defenses [1]; and

3. Many people, yourself included it seems, need to examine these conflicts around the world through the lens of historical materialism.

Take the genocide and conflict in Sudan. The SAF are arguably the ones with the "cheap rockets" here. Should we be giving the RSF anti-drone technology? The RSF are backed by the UAE using US weapons. Why? To loot Sudanese gold.

Why did Russia invade Ukraine? Territory, access to the Black Sea, resources and to create a land bridge to Crimea that had otherwise become extremely expensive to maintain as a colonial outpost. Like, just look at a map of controlled territory.

But why is it in a stalemate? In part because Russia is a nuclear power but also because the West is unwilling to let Ukraine do the one thing it could do to defend itself properly and that is to attack Russian energy infrastructure. Despite the sanctions, Russia is still allowed to sell oil and gas to places like Hungary, Slovakia, France, Belgium, India and China.

Back to the Middle East, we have Yemen, who was devastated by war and genocide at the hands of another US ally, Saudi Arabia.

The solution to these conflicts isn't more weapons, not even "defensive weapons". It's solving the underlying economic conditions that created that conflict in the first place.

[1]: https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-rules-out-giving-ukr...

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quiet the power requirement. I wonder how long it has to focus on a drone to eliminate it. Like how long is this thing consuming 100kW?

Huh, to what degree is this technology gatekept by battery advances? A few decades ago lasers were dismissed because they involved chemical reagents for high power and explosive capacitors for even low-power applications.

> Huh, to what degree is this technology gatekept by battery advances?

Not too much. The power delivery was doable even 15 years ago. It would have just been more expensive and heavier.

The bigger issue I believe would have been the lens and tracking capabilities. For the tracking to work you need some pretty good cameras, pretty fast computers, and pretty good object recognition. We are talking about using high speed cameras and doing object detection each frame

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#88

Personally I think that defensive technology like this is fantastic. It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones. Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. Outside the Middle East there's many areas threatened by combatants with similar cheap missiles. P…

> It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones One could also hope that e.g. Iran starts focusing its economy on the wellbeing of its people versus playing regional cop to America’s world police.

They haven't done so in decades. You think they'll start now?

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#89
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones One could also hope that e.g. Iran starts focusing its economy on the wellbeing of its people versus playing regional cop to America’s world police.

They haven't done so in decades. You think they'll start now?

> You think they'll start now?

No. But I can hope.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#90
post #59
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is designed to save people.

There is no such thing as a defensive weapon. You might be tempted to say "what about a missile shield?" but such a thing allows the owner to act with impunity with levels of violence we arguably haven't seen since 1945. As a real example of this, the only reason a deeper conflict didn't develop with Iran this year was because Iran demonstrated they could overwhelm the various layers of Israel's missile shield and Ir…

> You might be tempted to say "what about a missile shield?" but such a thing allows the owner to act with impunity with levels of violence we arguably haven't seen since 1945.

I would still say "what about a missile shield?".

If a missile shield is a weapon, because of its affordances, then any object is a weapon. And while that's marginally true I don't think we get anywhere by entertaining category errors.

If something enables aggression, because it makes counter attacks unreasonable, that seems like a fairly nice thing to have more of, in a world where destruction is far too easy and construction is fairly hard.

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