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Sabotaging Bitcoin

blog.dshr.org

131–140 of 224 posts

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the near future every nation state will be vying for the largest stake of the BTC mining pie and the BTC race will be bigger than the Space Race and the Nuclear Arms Race combined and adjusted for inflation.

Why? BTC is not just worthless, it has negative value due to how much electricity it takes to securely mine new blocks.

It's worth around 85k USD at the time you wrote the comment

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#132
post #97
post #2

TIL: https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci - quite horrifying! EDIT: For comparison: https://gridwatch.co.uk/

Well what's arguably even more horrifying is according to "Estimated average energy efficiency of bitcoin mining hardware" no significant changed happened since 2014. I imagine we went from CPU to GPU to ASIC in couple of years and now for more than a decade, no change, just more.

Well, improved energy efficiency just means more hashes/s and the difficulty adjusting. There's nothing to be gained in terms of the security or efficiency of the network as a whole by making the hardware faster, it's only good for whoever makes and uses that hardware.

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#133
post #38
post #2

TIL: https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci - quite horrifying! EDIT: For comparison: https://gridwatch.co.uk/

Since when is incentivizing low cost renewable energy horrifying?

Bitcoin cares not for how much energy it uses, just how valuable the energy it uses is. This does not make more energy available to anyone else or reduce the price.

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#134
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that you can start with the next head earlier than all the others, giving you an edge in being the first to find the next block.

But what do they gain by doing that? What's the edge? Starting earlier doesn't give you any advantage.

> Starting earlier doesn't give you any advantage

It's a race. Starting earlier obviously gives an advantage?!

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#135
post #28

The Eyal & Sirer paper is pretty interesting - they basically point out that there is actually some game theory involved in when miners should reveal that they mined a block to compete most effectively with their fellows. If a pool can set up a situation where they mine a block and wait X seconds to reveal it, they can force other miners to waste X seconds of has power and gain an advantage. It looks like a result wi…

Take a look at the recently mined blocks. there are some miners that very frequently mine two blocks within quick succession, like just now for example: Block 930256: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/blocks/btc/930256 Followed by block 930257: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/blocks/btc/930257 The second block is usually almost empty.

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#136
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t discredit any crypto based solely on its ability or inability to fulfill debts, public and private. But I do wonder if the abstract nature of it will forever hinder its ability to do so universally. I’m also interested why Bitcoin Cash wasn’t more successful after the fork.

>I’m also interested why Bitcoin Cash wasn’t more successful after the fork. you mean besides it being run by a bunch of crooks and scam artists like CSW?

I wasn’t actually asking, but making a point. Thanks for helping spell it out though!

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#137
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what do they gain by doing that? What's the edge? Starting earlier doesn't give you any advantage.

> Starting earlier doesn't give you any advantage It's a race. Starting earlier obviously gives an advantage?!

No it's not a race, it's a lottery.

It would be like saying you've an edge if you start earlier at the roulette.

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be wrong but I think it's like this.. A finds a block after 1 minute, then powers off and waits for another minute. They reveal the block after 2 minutes. B searches for the block for 2 minutes. After 2 minutes, A has used 1 minute of their compute, and B has used 2.

But the time spent by B is not wasted. If they find a block between minute 1 and 2, their block will be accepted, and A just lose the reward of the block they found.

When you reveal a block, it's not accepted instantaneously. When two competing blocks are revealed "roughly at the same time", it ends up in two competing chains.

If B finds a block between minute 1 and 2, they start working on their competing chain, but A is already working on theirs. And A had a headstart because it started working on it somewhere between minute 1. So it's more likely that A's fork wins the race in the end.

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is the same thing. Everyone agrees that mining the next block is valuable.

Unless they didn’t. There’s nothing inherently valuable about crypto beyond what value people assign to it in their minds.

But that's irrelevant to the question above. The question asks "isn't [this attack] the same as saying that if everybody agrees that the USD is worthless, then it is worthless?".

The answer is "no, it's not the same". The attack does not require everybody to agree that the bitcoin is worthless.

Obviously if everybody agrees that the bitcoin is worthless, then it is worthless. But that's a separate topic.

Re: Sabotaging Bitcoin

#140
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you so confident that it will never weaken? Especially since there will come a time when the block reward is literally 0.

Tx fees make up a bigger and bigger fraction of miner rewards over time.

transaction fees are not increasing though, so they can't offset miner rewards. they have been in the $100k-$200k per day range for a long time, with only occasional breakouts: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/charts/transaction-fees-... and the trend is not to the upside. in fact with the arrival of ETFs in 2024 the trend is clearly downwards.
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