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Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

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Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#131

Post by jimbob45 »

kps wrote: post #115
willturman wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mentioned in the post: > Indeed, the stronger explanation for Times New Roman’s long reign isn’t aesthetic excellence, but practicality and inertia. Times New Roman was among the small set of typefaces bundled with early versions of Windows. It was also promoted as “web-safe,” meaning webmasters could reasonably assume it would render properly across platforms. In the early era of digitalization, choosing Tim…

And Times is one of the three original Postscript core typefaces, along with Helvetica and Courier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_typefaces_included_wit...

Best as I can tell, Windows 3.1 only really shipped with TNR and Courier. Weird that I don’t see Helvetica anywhere on that list.

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#132

Post by anthk »

jfengel wrote: post #101
ericmay wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I do find it faintly ironic that Sort Of Greek Or Roman Or Something architecture was the villain in Ayn Rand's novel. Living here in DC I don't especially mind Federalist Architecture, even though it does look like somebody saw some photos of Rome and Athens and kinda mashed them together. But I don't love insisting that a 19th century view of the second century BC must forevermore be the only possible taste.

As an European, seeing modern American airports with Greco-Roman architecture makes the environment tacky as hell. As something from Las Vegas.

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#133

Post by virtualritz »

TLDR; Not only is the new choice of font unfortunate at best -- the formatting reveals another level of amateurishness so very unbefitting to the ernestness one might assume the sender of the letter wanting to convey. ;)

Basic typography: a paragraph starts with indentation if there is no blank line of any height after the previous one. And if it is not the first paragraph. In short: indent or put vertical space. Never both.

The old TNR version gets this right: if you put blank lines between paragraphs, you don't indent.

Then the date -- dangling god-knows-where, aligned with nothing.

In the old version the only formatting faux-pas is the alignment of 'Sincerely' and if you're picky the outdent of the seal in the top left is a tad much (outside optical axis).

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#134

Post by tolerance »

WillAdams wrote: post #51
tolerance wrote: post #23

This was a terrific, reasonable take on this “controversy”. I have to admit that the correspondence set in Calibri looks like something dispatched from a leasing office. Imagine reading the Warren Commission report set in that. The author seems to settle on the consensus that surrounded TNR before this exchange made the news. It’s banal. At times it signals to its original objectives (e.g., Prof. Dr. style websites […

I love Univers as well, but the _Q_ is just _too_ weird by most folks perceptions.

What do you think about Gerstner-Programm?

https://forgotten-shapes.com/gerstner-programm/gerstnerprogr...

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#135

Post by ericjmorey »

dheera wrote: post #91
tolerance wrote: post #23

This was a terrific, reasonable take on this “controversy”. I have to admit that the correspondence set in Calibri looks like something dispatched from a leasing office. Imagine reading the Warren Commission report set in that. The author seems to settle on the consensus that surrounded TNR before this exchange made the news. It’s banal. At times it signals to its original objectives (e.g., Prof. Dr. style websites […

> correspondence set in Calibri looks like something dispatched from a leasing office In general this is the way I feel about anything written in a Microsoft-, Apple-, or Ubuntu-supplied typeface. If you stick to system fonts you the pinnacle of embodiment of apathy in my book. Have some backbone, browse through Google fonts, pick something that represents your organization and stick with it. Even if you are a leasin…

If it's legible, the terms of a lease are way more important than the typeface. Anyone wasting time on the typeface of the contract would worry me more than comfort me with regard to knowing what's important.

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#136

Post by ericjmorey »

snickerbockers wrote: post #81
LucasFonts wrote: post #28

Our studio, LucasFonts, designed Calibri. Here are our CEO Luc(as) de Groot’s thoughts on the matter: Back to bad... Deciding to ditch Calibri as a ‘wasteful diversity’ font is both hilarious and sad. I designed Calibri to make reading on modern computer screens easier, and in 2006 Microsoft chose it to replace Times New Roman as the default font in the Office suite. Microsoft moved away from Times for good reasons.…

Honest question: do you have any financial stake in this? I'm assuming you don't get paid per-document or whatever but do you have any sort of income dependent on Microsoft shipping your font with outlook (whether as the default font or not)? I don't mean to accuse you of anything but to 99% of the population this is a complete nothingburger and it looks ridiculous that anybody would care (this cuts both ways btw I a…

The Department of State switching to a less accessible font is not a nothing burger to all the people who now have more difficulty reading the documents. It reinforces the tone of international relations being put forward by the administration to the detriment of everyone in the country.

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#137

Post by dheera »

tiffanyh wrote: post #126
dheera wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> correspondence set in Calibri looks like something dispatched from a leasing office In general this is the way I feel about anything written in a Microsoft-, Apple-, or Ubuntu-supplied typeface. If you stick to system fonts you the pinnacle of embodiment of apathy in my book. Have some backbone, browse through Google fonts, pick something that represents your organization and stick with it. Even if you are a leasin…

Any typefaces you’d recommend?

For serious government communications? Libertinus Serif, Vollkorn, Ibarra Real Nova, Baskerville, Libre Baskerville

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#138

Post by dfxm12 »

derbOac wrote: post #43
LucasFonts wrote: post #28

Our studio, LucasFonts, designed Calibri. Here are our CEO Luc(as) de Groot’s thoughts on the matter: Back to bad... Deciding to ditch Calibri as a ‘wasteful diversity’ font is both hilarious and sad. I designed Calibri to make reading on modern computer screens easier, and in 2006 Microsoft chose it to replace Times New Roman as the default font in the Office suite. Microsoft moved away from Times for good reasons.…

Personally, I don't have a problem with them changing fonts. I personally think Times isn't a great choice for the reasons articulated in that statement (something open and more legible seems better to me), but I don't think it's a horrible choice either (it's standard and efficient with space). If the State Department wants to use a certain font, it's their prerogative. What bothers me about the decision is their ra…

Reactionaryism and vice signaling are par for the course for this administration. This was an opportunity for both, and they took it.

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#139

Post by tombert »

tolerance wrote: post #23

This was a terrific, reasonable take on this “controversy”. I have to admit that the correspondence set in Calibri looks like something dispatched from a leasing office. Imagine reading the Warren Commission report set in that. The author seems to settle on the consensus that surrounded TNR before this exchange made the news. It’s banal. At times it signals to its original objectives (e.g., Prof. Dr. style websites […

I also never really liked Calibri for professional stuff. Maybe I'm just a victim of conditionig, but Calibri always had a bit of a "web page" vibe, not official document vibe.

I personally think that Computer Modern/Latin Modern from LaTeX looks a lot better than Times New Roman. I wish they'd standardize on that but it might not be included in Microsoft Office, so I guess Times New Roman it is.

Re: Times New American: A Tale of Two Fonts

#140

Post by ericmay »

anthk wrote: post #132
jfengel wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do find it faintly ironic that Sort Of Greek Or Roman Or Something architecture was the villain in Ayn Rand's novel. Living here in DC I don't especially mind Federalist Architecture, even though it does look like somebody saw some photos of Rome and Athens and kinda mashed them together. But I don't love insisting that a 19th century view of the second century BC must forevermore be the only possible taste.

As an European, seeing modern American airports with Greco-Roman architecture makes the environment tacky as hell. As something from Las Vegas.

As an American I think they’re tacky too. That style of architecture for an airport doesn’t make sense really. Well. I bet it could be pulled off. But the “architects” designing the airports are the same people designing Greco-Roman architecture on disfigured American McMansions.
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