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Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

computerworld.com

21–30 of 94 posts

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#21
post #2

It’s an inevitable outcome of the hostile and unpredictable enforcement of rules that can change whenever trump has a bad day

The only constant is that things are always changing, and getting more hostile for foreigners. It's disingenuous to blame Trump when this is what U.S. voters chose.

> disingenuous to blame Trump when this is what U.S. voters chose

Trump legitimately campaigned on being cruel to illegal migrants and refugees. He also campaigned on reducing immigration in general. To that extent, you are correct inasmuch as Trump's H1-B policies were promised. (MAGA wasn't subtle [1].)

Where I think we can legitimately say this is MAGA versus Republicans is in the reverse brain drain. America in the 1950s was a destination for top minds. Ameirca in the 2020s is not. Part of that is due to remote work. Part due to us not being in the wake of a world war. But part was due to an explicit policy to attract the most ambitious to America, and then to encourage them to stay.

[1] https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/wo...

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#22
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only constant is that things are always changing, and getting more hostile for foreigners. It's disingenuous to blame Trump when this is what U.S. voters chose.

> It's disingenuous to blame Trump when this is what U.S. voters chose. It’s really not. Exit polls show a tiny fraction of voters picked Trump for anything other than his empty promises of “instantly fixing the economy”. That’s ignoring all the people who didn’t vote at all. Saying not voting is the same as voting for the bad thing is an empty accusation that lacks critical thinking.

> Saying not voting is the same as voting for the bad thing is an empty accusation that lacks critical thinking

It's game theory. Gaining a vote is as valuable as convincing someone who would have voted against you to not turn out.

Caveat: if you aren't in a swing state, and we're constraining ourselves to the Presidency, you're right. (Though not voting on anything on the ballot is just stupidity or laziness. Pretty much every jurisdiction has meangingful issues being decided by plebiscite every few years.)

If you're in a swing state, however, not voting endorses the status quo. It may not be what was intended by the voter. But drunk drivers are dangerous irrespective of intent.

In practice, the issues people tend to bring up for conscientously not voting tend to be comically undone by the winner of the election. And if you tallied up everyone who didn't vote (let's take them at their word that it's conscientiousness), you'd swing almost every election. So yeah, a non-voter and a MAGA voter are electorally identical, ceteris paribus.

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#23
It doesn't matter to conservatives. Look at the US South. They have been poor for generations because they dislike diversity more than they want a strong economy and common prosperity.

As far as I can tell the best fix is higher education (exposure to diverse viewpoints & critical thinking predicts partisan shifting). But I'm sure there are other options.

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very incorrect statement. 40% of all current US unicorns have an Indian immigrant founder. They might be the greatest job creators in the economy. Giving them up will be the end of the US. 1% of the population starting 40% of our billion dollar companies. https://news.crunchbase.com/venture/foreign-born-entrepreneu...

> 40% of all current US unicorns This should be easy to cite. Thanks in advance.

https://news.crunchbase.com/venture/foreign-born-entrepreneu...

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#25
post #23

It doesn't matter to conservatives. Look at the US South. They have been poor for generations because they dislike diversity more than they want a strong economy and common prosperity. As far as I can tell the best fix is higher education (exposure to diverse viewpoints & critical thinking predicts partisan shifting). But I'm sure there are other options.

Huh? The US South is wealthier than any country on earth that is not a tax haven excepting only the US as a whole and perhaps Norway with its oil wealth. (The US South was considerably poorer than the rest of the US, but the advent of air conditioning about 75 years ago eventually ended that.)

I'm going to guess that it also has more college graduates per capita than any country except the US as a whole.

Also, US states and US regions have almost no control over how diverse they are: the Federal government decides who to let into the country, then those people are free to chose which state to live in regardless of how much the residents of a state dislike immigrants.

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#27
post #23

It doesn't matter to conservatives. Look at the US South. They have been poor for generations because they dislike diversity more than they want a strong economy and common prosperity. As far as I can tell the best fix is higher education (exposure to diverse viewpoints & critical thinking predicts partisan shifting). But I'm sure there are other options.

Huh? The US South is wealthier than any country on earth that is not a tax haven excepting only the US as a whole and perhaps Norway with its oil wealth. (The US South was considerably poorer than the rest of the US, but the advent of air conditioning about 75 years ago eventually ended that.) I'm going to guess that it also has more college graduates per capita than any country except the US as a whole. Also, US sta…

Compared to New York City, an extremely diverse place?

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#28
post #20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like some bizarro IT version of Schrödinger's Immigrant: Both stealing our jobs AND taking our welfare checks at the same time!

[flagged]

If someone who doesn't even have your language as their first language can just come and steal your job, maybe that's a little bit your fault too.

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#29
I'm not a fan of the way AI is developing, especially the threat it poses to jobs, but it has a way of finding, otherwise hard to locate, facts on the NET:

US manufacturing employment peaked in June 1979 at ~19.6 million jobs. It never "stopped" — output has grown — but jobs declined steadily afterward.

Main causes of job losses (especially sharp drop 2000–2010):

* Globalization and offshoring by US multinationals (key driver) * China's WTO entry (2001) + PNTR (2000), accelerating imports * Automation/productivity gains Trade deficits and competition from low-cost countries (Asia, Mexico)

Who contributed:

* US corporations/multinationals seeking lower costs * US government policies (trade agreements, PNTR with China) * Economic forces (globalization, container shipping, currency issues)

It seems to me that big money, greed, and self-intrest, are ultimately to blame for any lack of employment in the US, for natives and foreign workers. Blaming the one politician that is trying to restore this country's economic power and ability to support its citizens is short-sighted, childish and really messed up because for the longest times, foreign tech workers have been the preferred go to employee for most of not all of the company's responsible for this mess.

Re: Foreign tech workers are avoiding travel to the US

#30
post #23

It doesn't matter to conservatives. Look at the US South. They have been poor for generations because they dislike diversity more than they want a strong economy and common prosperity. As far as I can tell the best fix is higher education (exposure to diverse viewpoints & critical thinking predicts partisan shifting). But I'm sure there are other options.

The South is a bit of a lost cause. I was born and raised in Alabama. I spent many years out of the country and also living elsewhere in the US. But I've been back in Alabama since October 2010.

These people here love to shoot themselves in the foot.

I always say that Sherman should have never stopped. He should have burnt everything to the ground.

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