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Non-Zero-Sum Games

nonzerosum.games

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Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#51

Post by friendzis »

anon84873628 wrote: post #21
skibidithink wrote: post #11

Lots of interesting insights, but their affirmative action take is a miss. > Critics of affirmative action often commit the fallacy of letting a failure in one area doom the entire enterprise. This ignores the interdependent nature of affirmative action. [1] Affirmative action sets up a zero-sum game where fixed resources like university admissions and employment offers are redistributed to people with the "correct"…

Do you disagree that some critics of AA are committing that fallacy? AA is being used as an example of the failure mode where: "The failure of a single component does not mean the program is fatally flawed; rather, it highlights the need for a comprehensive, coordinated approach" Indeed, I'm sure the author would agree that part of the comprehensive solution is to increase the amount of university admission slots.

> Do you disagree that some critics of AA are committing that fallacy?

This is is such a weird non-argument dressed as some gotcha. "Some critics of x are committing y fallacy" is probably universally correct statement. It is so devoid of any meaning that this particular type of discourse has not only a name, but a mascot too.

Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#52

Post by Loughla »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #38

[flagged]

I didn't realize that morality and philosophy had concrete black and white answers, and that adding your own thoughts to the discussion regarding those things was discouraged.

I'm not trying to be a shit, but your post comes across as either very gatekeeping or just snotty for no good reason. Do you have arguments to support what you're saying other than a hand-waving dismissal of the site?

Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#53

Post by AndrewKemendo »

wek wrote: post #14

A bit hard to read but some fun images and examples. I appreciated his post on capitalism as not a zero sum game.

Capitalism is 100% a zero sum game and capitalists love to try to pretend that it’s not

The fact of resource extraction from society and externalities like pollution not being counted by capitalist because they “can’t count them “and just bundle them as externalities demonstrably destroy any concept of non-zero sum game

There are limited resources on the planet and that’s the sum.

If you want to take it even further the extraction pace is even more important than the total gross amount of resources because of inefficient allocation and distribution processes

So no the universe itself is zero some we’re not creating more Mattar and especially in the context of humans on earth the functional and numerical reality is zero sum

Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#54

Post by MarkusQ »

marcosdumay wrote: post #25
svara wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooperation has been "invented" in evolution many times independently and is long term stable in many species. If your comment was true that fact wouldn't exist. We may consider the world we live in today competitive, but at the end of the day, humanity is a globe spanning machine that exists due to cooperative behavior at all scales. Comments such as yours are really missing the forest for the trees. I suspect that…

You seem to be misunderstanding the GP. Evolution does not work maximizing individual success.

> Evolution does not work maximizing individual success.

Yes it does. In fact, unless you want to get nit-picky about intra-gene, inter-allele selection, that is _exactly_ what it does.

Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#56

Post by jrm4 »

skibidithink wrote: post #11

Lots of interesting insights, but their affirmative action take is a miss. > Critics of affirmative action often commit the fallacy of letting a failure in one area doom the entire enterprise. This ignores the interdependent nature of affirmative action. [1] Affirmative action sets up a zero-sum game where fixed resources like university admissions and employment offers are redistributed to people with the "correct"…

University admission is a zero-sum already deeply unfair game (with slots going to the rich and privileged)

AA just pushes against THAT, for better or worse.

Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#57

Post by MontyCarloHall »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #53
wek wrote: post #14

A bit hard to read but some fun images and examples. I appreciated his post on capitalism as not a zero sum game.

Capitalism is 100% a zero sum game and capitalists love to try to pretend that it’s not The fact of resource extraction from society and externalities like pollution not being counted by capitalist because they “can’t count them “and just bundle them as externalities demonstrably destroy any concept of non-zero sum game There are limited resources on the planet and that’s the sum. If you want to take it even further…

>The fact of resource extraction from society and externalities like pollution not being counted by capitalist because they "can’t count them" and just bundle them as externalities demonstrably destroy any concept of non-zero sum game

The article explicitly addresses this:

   The fact that Capitalism is non-zero-sum doesn't mean it is necessarily positive-sum. An economy that gets out of balance can produce very negative results (which are still non-zero). Cons of capitalism: — Can not be relied on to provide adequate social services, including healthcare and education. — Can be expected to run at a cost to externalities like the environment. — Can produce products that are detrimental to well-being.
Based on your other comment [0], it seems you have a bad-faith axe to grind against this site.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46434065

Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#58

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Loughla wrote: post #52
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #38

[flagged]

I didn't realize that morality and philosophy had concrete black and white answers, and that adding your own thoughts to the discussion regarding those things was discouraged. I'm not trying to be a shit, but your post comes across as either very gatekeeping or just snotty for no good reason. Do you have arguments to support what you're saying other than a hand-waving dismissal of the site?

The entire premise is not philosophically rigorous

Read any serious philosophical work and the first thing it does it tells you what it’s assumptions are about the world and basis for reality.

At no point does this website do that at all it just assumes a lot of background and then jumps into this concept that there exist these “win-win games” with a bare grounding in game theory, and that all we need to do is pull the concepts out of existing structures without acknowledging any of the foundational structures or any of the epistemological Foundations of the claims.

My primary problem with it is that it sneaks in a bunch of factually incorrect and problematic concepts like the idea of capitalism as win-win which has been thoroughly debunked by Proudhon in “What is Property” and expanded on by Graeber in his book Debt

Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#59

Post by skibidithink »

jrm4 wrote: post #56
skibidithink wrote: post #11

Lots of interesting insights, but their affirmative action take is a miss. > Critics of affirmative action often commit the fallacy of letting a failure in one area doom the entire enterprise. This ignores the interdependent nature of affirmative action. [1] Affirmative action sets up a zero-sum game where fixed resources like university admissions and employment offers are redistributed to people with the "correct"…

University admission is a zero-sum already deeply unfair game (with slots going to the rich and privileged) AA just pushes against THAT, for better or worse.

AA doesn't prevent the rich from buying admissions. It redistributes slots from middle and lower class folks with the wrong ethnicity.

Re: Non-Zero-Sum Games

#60

Post by AndrewKemendo »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #57
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is 100% a zero sum game and capitalists love to try to pretend that it’s not The fact of resource extraction from society and externalities like pollution not being counted by capitalist because they “can’t count them “and just bundle them as externalities demonstrably destroy any concept of non-zero sum game There are limited resources on the planet and that’s the sum. If you want to take it even further…

>The fact of resource extraction from society and externalities like pollution not being counted by capitalist because they "can’t count them" and just bundle them as externalities demonstrably destroy any concept of non-zero sum game The article explicitly addresses this: The fact that Capitalism is non-zero-sum doesn't mean it is necessarily positive-sum. An economy that gets out of balance can produce very negativ…

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