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The future of software development is software developers

codemanship.wordpress.com

331–340 of 588 posts

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#331
post #3

I really really want this to be true. I want to be relevant. I don’t know what to do if all those predictions are true and there is no need (or very little need) for programmers anymore. But something tells me “this time is different” is different this time for real. Coding AIs design software better than me, review code better than me, find hard-to-find bugs better than me, plan long-running projects better than me,…

> Coding AIs design software better than me, review code better than me, find hard-to-find bugs better than me, plan long-running projects better than me, make decisions based on research, literature, and also the state of our projects better than me. They don't do any of that better than me; they do it poorer and faster, but well enough for most of the time.

Then you are using the wrong AI tools or using them poorly

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#332
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time trusting the judgement of someone writing this: > I no longer write code. I’ve been a swe for over a decade. AI writes all my code following my instructions. My code output is now expected to be 5x what it was before because we are now augmented by AI. All my coworkers use AI. We don’t use ChatGPT we use anthropic. If I didn’t use AI I would be fired for being too slow. https://news.ycombinator.com…

You should drop the prejudice and focus to be aware of the situation. This is happening all over the world, most people who have crossed this bridge just don’t share, just like they don’t share that they’ve brushed their teeth this morning.

I think I'll keep defaulting to critical thinking rather than some kinda pseudo-religious "crossing the bridge" talk.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#333
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>After working with agent-LLMs for some years now, I can confirm that they are completely useless for real programming. >They never helped me solve complex problems with low-level libraries. They can not find nontrivial bugs. They don't get the logic of interwoven layers of abstractions. >LLMs pretend to do this with big confidence and fail miserably. This is true for most developers as well. The mean software develo…

> The promise of LLMs is not that they solve the single most difficult tasks for you instantly, but that they do the easy stuff well enough that they replace offshore teams. But that's exactly the *promise* of LLMs by the hypepeople behind it.

I bet you trusted the Blockchain bros and were first in line to buy NFTs too. No?

Why would you trust the hype when you can verify this stuff yourself pretty easily.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#334
post #3

I really really want this to be true. I want to be relevant. I don’t know what to do if all those predictions are true and there is no need (or very little need) for programmers anymore. But something tells me “this time is different” is different this time for real. Coding AIs design software better than me, review code better than me, find hard-to-find bugs better than me, plan long-running projects better than me,…

I have been using the most recent Claude, ChatGPT and Gemini models for coding for a bit more than a year, on a daily basis. They are pretty good at writing code *after* I thoroughly described what to do, step by step. If you miss a small detail they get loose and the end result is a complete mess that takes hours to clean up. This still requires years of coding experience, planning ahead in head, you won't be able t…

Yes what you are describing is exactly what Kiro solves

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s crazy how different my experience is. I think perhaps it’s incredibly important what programming language you are using, what your project and architecture is like. Agents are making an extraordinary contribution to my productivity. If they jacked my Claude Code subscription up to $500/month I would be upset but almost certainly would keep paying it, that’s how much value it brings. I’m in enterprise ERP.

Even more important than those things, is how well you can write and communicate your ideas. If you cannot communicate your ideas so a human could implement it as you wanted it to without asking extra questions, a LLM isn't gonna be able to.

Natural language programming has arrived in my opinion. If you're not a developer or have any experience programming it won't help much

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#336
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just tried to reverse the string you provided using Gemini. it worked fine on the first try

In gemini: > The reverse of the string 'gssssyeekxxuoaqaaaiooo9aaa7zjx' is: xjz7aaa9oooiiaaaqauxxkyeessssg > Youve made a mistake ``` I see where I tripped up! Let's re-examine that long string carefully. The original string you gave me was: `gssssyeekxxuoaqaaaiooo9aaa7zjx` Let's look at the end of that string: `...aaa7zjx`. When we reverse it, it should start with: `xjz7aaa...` Here is the precise character-by-chara…

Mine said it used python and got: xjz7aaa9oooiaaaqaouxxkeeyssssg

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#337
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After working with agent-LLMs for some years now, I can confirm that they are completely useless for real programming. "completely useless" and "real programming" are load bearing here. Without a definition to agree on for those terms, it's really hard not to read that as you're trying to troll us by making a controversial unprovable claim that you know will get people that disagree with you riled up. What's especi…

Who cares about semantics. Ultimately it all boils down to the money - show me the money. OAI have to show money and so do its customers from using this tool. But nope, the only thing out there where it matters is hype. Nobody is on an earnings call clearly showing how they had a numerical jump in operating efficiency. Until I see that, this technology has a dated shelf life and only those who already generate immens…

The "real programming" people are moving the goalposts of their no true scotsman fallacy so fast they're leaving Roadrunner style dust behind them.

Yes, there are things LLMs can't do at all, some where they are actively dangerous.

But also there are decently sized parts of "software development" where any above average LLM can speed up the process as long as whoever is using it knows hot to do so and doesn't fight the tool.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing has been eroded for me, in fact it had the opposite effect. It's easier to get into new hobbies, easier to develop skills, I value reading on my own more than I did before. At least for me, LLMs act as multipliers of what I can and want to do, it hasn't removed my passion for music production, 3D, animation or programming one bit, if anything it's fueled those passions and let me do stuff within them faster a…

Nothing I could make would be very good. So the only reason I would, say, write, is in order to write, not to have produced an essay. Hobbies are ways to pass time productively. If it took less time, it wouldn't be a better use of time, but a worse one.

It's not about being able to do more faster, but be able to faster get help doing what you wanted to do. For example, before LLMs, if I wanted to figure out how to do something with a specific analog synth I basically spent time reading manuals and browsing internet forums, piecing together whatever I could find into something actionable, sometimes slightly wrong, but at least in the right direction.

Nowadays, I fire off the LLM to figure it out for me, then try out what I get back, and I can move on to actually having fun playing on the synth, rather than trying to figure out how to do what I wanted to do.

The end goal for me with my hobbies is more or less the same, have fun. But for me the fun is not digging through manuals, it is to "do" or "use" or "perform" or whatever. I like music production because I like to make music, not because I like digging through manuals for some arcane knowledge.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#339
‘Obviously’ AI and programming are antonyms. AI is defined as the ability for computers to do whatever it is that humans can do that (most) computers can't currently do. Conversely, ‘programming’ is whatever activity is required to fully take advantage of computer hardware that (most) humans can't currently do.

Both sets of goalposts are firmly affixed to their wheels :)

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#340

I feel like the comments/articles that continue to point out how LLMs cannot solve complex problems are missing a few important points: 1. LLMs are only getting better from here. With each release, we continue to see improvements in their capabilities. And strong competition is driving this innovation, and will probably not stop anytime soon. Much of the world is focused on this right now, and therefore much of the w…

Also 5: "But LLMs produce a bunch of code I need to read and review".

Yes, but so do your coworkers? Do you complain about every PR you need to read? Are they all compressed diamonds of pure genious, not a single missed character or unoptimised function? Not a bad or suboptimal decision in sight?

If so, shoot me a mail, I want to work where you're working =)

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