The future of software development is software developers • Hacker News Board

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#291

Post by perhapsAnLLM » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:17 PM UTC

snickerer wrote: post #198

After working with agent-LLMs for some years now, I can confirm that they are completely useless for real programming. They never helped me solve complex problems with low-level libraries. They can not find nontrivial bugs. They don't get the logic of interwoven layers of abstractions. LLMs pretend to do this with big confidence and fail miserably. For every problem I need to turn my brain to ON MODE and wake up, the…

"they are completely useless for real programming"

You and I must have completely different definitions of "real programming". In this very comment, you described a problem that the model solved. The solution may not have involved low-level programming, or discovering a tricky bug entrenched in years-worth of legacy code, but still a legitimate task that you, as a programmer, would've needed to solve otherwise. How is that not "real programming"?

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#292

Post by threethirtytwo » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:18 PM UTC

mrwrong wrote: post #277

foxygen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I've been using AI wrong. I can't understand testimonies like this. Most times I try to use AI for a task, it is a shitshow, and I have to rewrite everything anyway.

have you tried using $NEWEST_MODEL ?

It’s because depending on the person the newest model crossed the line into being useful for them personally. It’s not like a new version crosses the line for everyone. It happens gradually. Each version more and more people come into the fold.

For me Claude code changed the game.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#293

Post by throw4847285 » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:19 PM UTC

embedding-shape wrote: post #264

conartist6 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus I think I've almost never see so little competition for what I think are the real prizes! Everyone's off making copies of copies of copies of the same crappy infrastructure we already have. They're busy building small inconsequential side projects so they can say they built something using an LLM.

> They're busy building small inconsequential side projects Unironically, sending a program to build those for me have send me almost endless amount of time. I'm a pretty distracted individual, and pretty anal about my workflow/environment, so lots of times I've spent hours going into rabbit-holes to make something better, when I could have just sucked it up and do it the manual way instead, even if it takes mental e…

But isn't that exactly the kind of learned helplessness being discussed? As a fellow distracted individual, I have seen instant gratification erode all of my most prized hobbies and skills. Why read a book when I can scroll on my phone? My distress tolerance is lower than ever. LLMs feel like a bridge too far, for me anyway.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#294

Post by Gud » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:20 PM UTC

spicyusername wrote: post #280

snickerer wrote: post #198

After working with agent-LLMs for some years now, I can confirm that they are completely useless for real programming. They never helped me solve complex problems with low-level libraries. They can not find nontrivial bugs. They don't get the logic of interwoven layers of abstractions. LLMs pretend to do this with big confidence and fail miserably. For every problem I need to turn my brain to ON MODE and wake up, the…

I can confirm that they are completely useless for real programming And I can confirm, with similar years of experience, that they are not useless. Absolutely incredible tools that have saved hours and hours helping me understand large codebases, brainstorm features, and point out gaps in my implementation or understanding. I think the main disconnect in the discourse is that there are those pretending they can relia…

Same. I started coding before hitting puberty, and Im well into my 30s.

If you know the problem space well, you can let LLMs(I use Claude and ChatGPT) flesh it out.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#295

Post by throw4847285 » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

mrwrong wrote: post #274

embedding-shape wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all we know, you both could comparing using a Nokia 3310 and a workstation PC based on the hardware, but you both just say "this computer is better than that computer". There are a ton of models out there, ran in a ton of different ways, that can be used in different ways with different harnesses, and people use different workflows. There is just so many variables involved, that I don't think it's neither fair no…

> The variance is great this strikes me as a very important thing to reflect on. when the automobile was invented, was the apparent benefit so incredibly variable?

Is this a trick question? Yes it was. A horse could go over any terrain while a car could only really go over very specific terrain designed for it. We had to terraform the world in order to make the automobile so beneficial. And it turned out that this terraforming had many unintended consequences. It's actually a pretty apt comparison to LLMs.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#296

Post by cheevly » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:24 PM UTC

utopiah wrote: post #105

cheevly wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I promise you that I can show you how to reliably solve any of them using any of the latest OpenAI models. Email me if you want proof; josh.d.griffith at gmail

I'd watch that show ideally with few base rules though, e.g. - the problems to solve must NOT be part of the training set - the person using the tool (e.g. OpenAI, Claude, DevStral, DeepSeek, etc) must NOT be able to solve problems alone as I believe otherwise the 1st is "just" search and the 2nd is basically offloading the actual problem solving to the user.

Im talking generalized solutions that solve all of them.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#297

Post by dent9 » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:26 PM UTC

63stack wrote: post #19

mohsen1 wrote: post #3

I really really want this to be true. I want to be relevant. I don’t know what to do if all those predictions are true and there is no need (or very little need) for programmers anymore. But something tells me “this time is different” is different this time for real. Coding AIs design software better than me, review code better than me, find hard-to-find bugs better than me, plan long-running projects better than me,…

This reads like shilling/advertisement.. Coding AIs are struggling for anything remotely complex, make up crap and present it as research, write tests that are just "return true", and won't ever question a decision you make. Those twenty engineers must not have produced much.

This is completely wrong. Codex 5.2 and Claude Sonnet 4.5 don't have any of these issues. They will regularly tell you that you're wrong if you bother to ask them and they will explain why and what a better solution is. They don't make up anything. The code they produce is noticeably more efficient in LoC than previous models. And yes they really will do research, they will search the Internet for docs and articles as needed and cite their references inline with their answers.

You talk as if you haven't used a LLM since 2024. It's now almost 2026 and things have changed a lot.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#298

Post by afishhh » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:27 PM UTC

threethirtytwo wrote: post #278

leptons wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a typical no-proof "AI"-boosting response, and from an account created only 35 days ago.

Right I’m a bot made to promote AI like half the people on this thread. I don’t know if you noticed a difference from other hype cycles but other ones were speculative. This one is also speculative but the greater divide is that the literal on the ground usefulness of AI is ALREADY going to change the world. The speculation is that the AI will get better and will no longer need hand holding.

I'm having a lot of trouble understanding what you're trying to convey. You say there's a difference from previous "speculation" but also that it's still speculation. Then you go on to write "ALREADY going to" which is future tense (speculation), even clarifying what the speculation is.

Is this sarcasm, ragebait, or a serious argument?

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#299

Post by threethirtytwo » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:27 PM UTC

hansmayer wrote: post #220

baq wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disrespect the trend line and get rolled over by the steamroller. Labs are cooking and what is available commercially is lobotomized for safety and alignment. If your baseline of current max capability is sonnet 4.5 released just this summer you’re going to be very surprised in the next few months.

Right, like I was steamrolled by the "Team of Pocket Ph.D Experts" announced earlier this year with ChatGPT 5 ? Remember that underwhelming experience? The Grok to which you could "paste your entire source code file"? The constantly debilitating Claude models? Satya Nadella desperately dropping down to a PO role and bypassing his executives to try and micro-manage Copilot product development because the O365 Copilot…

First examine your post. Can you create a 3D avatar with legs that can walk and talk?

If not, then for this area you’ve been steam rolled.

Anyway main point is, you’re looking at the hype headlines which are ludicrous. Where most optimists come from is that they are using it in the daily to code. To them it’s right in front of their eyes.

I’m not sure what your experience is but my opinion on AI doesn’t come from speculation. It comes from on the ground experience on how AI currently has changed my job role completely. If I hold the technology to be fixed and to not improve into the future then my point still stands. I’m not speculating. Most AI optimists aren’t speculating.

The current on the ground performance is what’s causing the divide. Some people have seen it fully others only have a rudimentary trial.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#300

Post by CuriouslyC » Tue, Dec 30, 2025, 2:27 PM UTC

qubitcoder wrote: post #129

CuriouslyC wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely dependent on the type of code being written. For verbose, straightforward code with clear cut test scenarios, one agent can easily 24/7 the work of 20 FT engineers. This is a best case scenario. Your productivity boost will depend entirely on a combination of how much you can remove yourself from the loop (basically, the cost of validation per turn) and how amenable the task/your code is to agents (whic…

Respectfully, if I may offer constructive criticism, I’d hope this isn’t how you communicate to software developers, customers, prospects, or fellow entrepreneurs. To be direct, this reads like a fluff comment written by AI with an emphasis on probability and metrics. P(that) || that. I’ve written software used by a local real estate company to the Mars Perseverance rover. AI is a phenomenally useful tool. But be wea…

I'll take you at your word regarding respectfully. That was an off the cuff attempt to explain the real levers that control the viability of agents under particular circumstances. The target market wasn't your average business potato but someone who might care about a hand waived "order approximate" estimator kind of like big-O notation, which is equally hand waivey.

Given that, if you want to revisit your comment in a constructive way rather than doing an empty drive by, I'll read your words with an open mind.