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Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

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Re: Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

#61

Post by richhickey »

hnhn34 wrote: post #49
0x696C6961 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slop is, by definition, AI generated. So ... no it didn't.

slop is not, by definition, AI generated. The word slop is from the mid 16th century, and its modern colloquial/meme use originated in 4chan in 2016. That's why we call AI slop "AI slop", and not just "slop".

Time to update your dictionary -

slop: "digital content of low quality that is produced usually in quantity by means of artificial intelligence"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slop

It is strictly this meaning I intended.

Re: Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

#62

Post by bdangubic »

kokada wrote: post #59
bdangubic wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what has hickey been trained on? ;)

Years of experience working in Enterprise and complex systems. And that is all on point with the criticism: while an AI can design a new language based in an existing language like Clojure, we need actual experienced people to design new interesting languages that add new constraints and make Software Engineering as a whole better. And we are also killing with AI the possibility of new people getting up to speed and…

> And we are also killing with AI the possibility of new people getting up to speed and becoming a future Rich Hickey.

Not sure I am on board with this part... I find LLMs in particular to be great teachers specifically for getting up to speed to becoming future Rich Hickey.

Re: Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

#64

Post by kurtis_reed »

satisfice wrote: post #55

It’s interesting to see AI fanboys desperately trying to shrug off the phenomenon of slop. It makes it clear that AI doesn’t need to take over the world by itself. It will have hundreds of thousands of willing helpers to cooperate in the collapse of human civilization.

There was already an infinite amount of noise on the internet from humans. It was called "information overload". But just because it's out there doesn't mean you have to see it.

Re: Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

#65

Post by whiteros_e »

bdangubic wrote: post #62
kokada wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years of experience working in Enterprise and complex systems. And that is all on point with the criticism: while an AI can design a new language based in an existing language like Clojure, we need actual experienced people to design new interesting languages that add new constraints and make Software Engineering as a whole better. And we are also killing with AI the possibility of new people getting up to speed and…

> And we are also killing with AI the possibility of new people getting up to speed and becoming a future Rich Hickey. Not sure I am on board with this part... I find LLMs in particular to be great teachers specifically for getting up to speed to becoming future Rich Hickey.

it is indeed a great teacher but there are times where it hallucinates and sticks to the hallucinated content even after several iteration unless human in the loop breaks it. i've wasted hours believing what LLM hallucinated.

my learnings are a lot of microdoses of things that I usually don't work on in a day to day so i don't want to spend time reading about it but yes this sort of learning would be otherwise impossible so gotta thank LLM for that.

Re: Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

#66

Post by MattyRad »

Tangentially related, "slop" really isn't a negative enough term for unwanted LLM garbage. "Slop" which is fed to pigs, has utility. "Slop" as a verb doesn't necessarily have a (strong) negative association ("It was slopped on the plate, but it was tasty").

I use the term "barf" more often. Barf has no utility*. Barf is always seen in a negative context. Barf is forcibly ejected from an unwilling participant (the LLM), and barf's foulness is coerced upon everyone that witnesses it. I think it's a better metaphor.

I know that this is just semantics, but still.

* even though LLM output __can__, and often does, have utility, we are specifically referring to unwanted LLM output that does not have utility. I'm not trying to argue that LLMs are objectively useless here, only that they are sometimes misused to the users' detriment.

Re: Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

#67

Post by tempaccount420 »

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #38
djoldman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns can and are used to murder people directly in the physical world. The overwhelming (perhaps complete) use of generative AI is not to murder people. It's to generate text/photo/video/audio.

Generative AI is used to defraud people, to propagandize them, to steal their intellectual property and livelihoods, to systematically deny their health insurance claims, to dangerously misinform them (e.g. illegitimate legal advice or hallucinated mushroom identification ebooks), to drive people to mental health breakdowns via "ai psychosis" and much more. The harm is real and material, and right now is causing unem…

Internet is used to defraud people, to propagandize them, to steal their intellectual property and livelihoods, to systematically deny their health insurance claims, to dangerously misinform them (e.g. illegitimate legal advice or hallucinated mushroom identification ebooks), to drive people to mental health breakdowns via "internet psychosis" and much more. The harm is real and material, and right now is causing unemployment, physical harm, imprisonment, and in some cases death.

Re: Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

#69

Post by spit2wind »

MattyRad wrote: post #66

Tangentially related, "slop" really isn't a negative enough term for unwanted LLM garbage. "Slop" which is fed to pigs, has utility. "Slop" as a verb doesn't necessarily have a (strong) negative association ("It was slopped on the plate, but it was tasty"). I use the term "barf" more often. Barf has no utility*. Barf is always seen in a negative context. Barf is forcibly ejected from an unwilling participant (the LLM…

This is an interesting observation. One could argue that some AI generated or driven things does have utility, and thus qualifies as "slop" (although not for those on the receiving end). For example, when used to drive clicks and generate revenue, to troll, or to spread propaganda. You get the idea.

In this instance however, I agree, barf is more accurate.

Re: Rich Hickey: Thanks AI

#70

Post by MrMorden »

nunez wrote: post #51
dvt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all just cynical bandwagoning. Google/Facebook/Etc. have done provable irreparable damage to the fabric of society via ads/data farming/promulgating fake news, but now that it's in vogue to hate on AI as an "enlightened" tech genius, we're all suddenly worried about.. what? Water? Electricity? Give me a break. The about-face is embarrassing, especially in the case of Rob Pike (who I'm sure has made 8+ figures…

It's worth mentioning that AI in its current form was not AT ALL a part of Google's corporate strategy until Microsoft and OpenAI forced their hand. Remember their embarrassing debut of Bard in Paris and the Internet collectively celebrating their all but guaranteed demise? It's Google+ all over again. It's possible that Pike, like many, did not sign up for that.

How did Microsoft and OpenAI force their hand? Google could just as easily not waste money on AI, use the corresponding lack of notice-me-sempai demands from their products that their users use AI everywhere as a powerful differentiator, and deliver the difference to shareholders.
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