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Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

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Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#141

> There's a new programmable layer of abstraction to master (in addition to the usual layers below) involving agents, subagents, their prompts, contexts, memory, modes, permissions, tools, plugins, skills, hooks, MCP, LSP, slash commands, workflows, IDE integrations, and ... This sounds unbearable. It doesn't sound like software development, it sounds like spending a thousand hours tinkering with your vim config. It…

> ... or how it's supposed to make any programmer worth their weight in salt 10x better.

It doesn't. The only people I've seen claim such speedups are either not generally fluent in programming or stand to benefit financially from reinforcing this meme.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#142

Wow - can we coin "Slopbrain" for people who are so far gone into AI eventualism that they can no longer function? Liked "cooked" but "slopped" or something. Good grief lol. Talk about getting lost in the sauce...

I feel Karpathy is smart enough to deserve a less dismissive response than this.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#143

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

What are you pivoting to?

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#144
post #100

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

I think AI-assisted programming may be having the opposite effect, at least for me. I'm now incentivized to use less abstractions. Why do we code with React? It's because synchronizing state between a UI and a data model is difficult and it's easy to make mistakes, so it's worth paying the React complexity/page-weight tax in order for a "better developer experience" that allows us to build working, reliable software…

> I'm now incentivized to use less abstractions.

I'm incentivised to use abstractions that are harder to learn, but execute faster or more safely once compiled. E.g. more Rust, Lean.

> If an LLM is typing that code - and it can maintain a test suite that shows everything works correctly - maybe we don't need that abstraction after all.

LLMs benefit from abstractions the same way as we do.

LLMs currently copy our approaches to solving problems and copy all the problems those approaches bring.

Letting LLMs skip all the abstractions is about as likely to succeed as genetic programming is efficient.

For example, writing more vanilla JS instead of React, you're just reinventing the necessary abstractions more verbosely and with a higher risk of duplicate code or mismatching abstractions.

In a recent interview with Bret Weinstein, a former professor of evolutionary biology, he proposed that one property of evolution that makes the story of one species evolving into another more likely is that it's not just random permutations of single genes; it's also permutations to counter variables encoded as telomeres and possibly microsatellites.

https://podcasts.happyscribe.com/the-joe-rogan-experience/24...

Bret compares this to flipping random bits in a program to make it work better vs. tweaking variables randomly in a high-level language. Mutating parameters at a high-level for something that already works is more likely to result in something else that works than mutating parameters at a low level.

So I believe LLMs benefit from high abstractions, like us.

We just need good ones; and good ones for us might not be the same as good ones for LLMs.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#145

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

So you're washing dishes now?

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#146
post #92

I have been using Copilot, Cursor, then CC for a little more than a year now. I have written code with teams using these tools and I am writing mostly for myself now. My observations have been the following: 1) These tools obviously improved significantly over the past 12 months. They can churn out code that makes sense in the context of the codebase, meaning there is more grounding to the codebase they are working o…

> Despite your own experiences with these tools it is imperative that they be in your toolbox.

Why is it imperative? Whenever I read comments like this I just think the author is cynically drumming up hype because of the looming AI bubble collapse.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#147
post #100

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

I think AI-assisted programming may be having the opposite effect, at least for me. I'm now incentivized to use less abstractions. Why do we code with React? It's because synchronizing state between a UI and a data model is difficult and it's easy to make mistakes, so it's worth paying the React complexity/page-weight tax in order for a "better developer experience" that allows us to build working, reliable software…

I'd rather use React than a bespoke solution created by an ephemeral agent, and I'd rather self-trepanate than use React

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#148
post #139
post #136

And there it is again, the "powerful alien tool" that was just "handed to us". No decades of research and massive allocation of resources over the last few years as well as very intentional decision making by tech leadership to develop this specific technology. Nope, it just mysteriously dropped from the sky one day.

Do you know who is the author ?

Yes, and I'm disappointed he seems to have joined the AI mysticism crowd.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#149
post #144
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think AI-assisted programming may be having the opposite effect, at least for me. I'm now incentivized to use less abstractions. Why do we code with React? It's because synchronizing state between a UI and a data model is difficult and it's easy to make mistakes, so it's worth paying the React complexity/page-weight tax in order for a "better developer experience" that allows us to build working, reliable software…

> I'm now incentivized to use less abstractions. I'm incentivised to use abstractions that are harder to learn, but execute faster or more safely once compiled. E.g. more Rust, Lean. > If an LLM is typing that code - and it can maintain a test suite that shows everything works correctly - maybe we don't need that abstraction after all. LLMs benefit from abstractions the same way as we do. LLMs currently copy our appr…

> For example, writing more vanilla JS instead of React, you're just reinventing the necessary abstractions more verbosely and with a higher risk of duplicate code or mismatching abstractions.

Right, but I'm also getting pages that load faster and don't require a build step, making them more convenient to hack on. I'm enjoying that trade-off a lot.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#150

Wow - can we coin "Slopbrain" for people who are so far gone into AI eventualism that they can no longer function? Liked "cooked" but "slopped" or something. Good grief lol. Talk about getting lost in the sauce...

WSJ has been writing increasingly about "AI Psychosis" (here's their most recent piece [0]). I'm increasingly seeing that this is the real threat of AI. I've personally known people who have started to strain relationships with friends and family because they sincerely believe they are evolving into something new. While not as dramatic, the normalization of the use of "AI as therapist" is equally concerning. I know t…

Cyberpunk was right!
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