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Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

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Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#101

Post by viraptor »

globular-toast wrote: post #85

I don't usually post something like this, but this is so fucking stupid. I'm prepared to stand by that. Let's see in a few years if I'm right. "AI" is literally models trained to make you think it's intelligent. That's it. It's like the ultimate "algorithm" or addiction machine. It's trained to make you think it's amazing and magical and therefore you think it's amazing and magical.

This could apply if we looked at questions in vacuum - someone had a conversation and was judging the models based on that. But some of us just use it for work and get good results daily. "Intelligent" is irrelevant; it's "useful". It doesn't matter what feelings I have about it if it saves me 2h of typing from time to time.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#102

Post by tyre »

simonw wrote: post #100
rambojohnson wrote: post #58

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

I think AI-assisted programming may be having the opposite effect, at least for me. I'm now incentivized to use less abstractions. Why do we code with React? It's because synchronizing state between a UI and a data model is difficult and it's easy to make mistakes, so it's worth paying the React complexity/page-weight tax in order for a "better developer experience" that allows us to build working, reliable software…

For moment you an use `date-fns` and tree shake.

I'd rather have LLMs build on top of proven, battle-tested production libraries than keep writing their own from scratch. You're going to fill up context with all of its re-invented wheels when it already knows how to use common options.

Not to mention that testing things like this is hard. And why waste time (and context and complexity) for humans and LLMs trying to do something hard like state syncing when you can focus on something else?

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#103

Post by sshine »

gghffguhvc wrote: post #70

My company takes between Christmas and New Years off. I took a week before that off too. I have not used AI in that time. The slower pace of life is amazing. But when I get back to coding it will be back to running at 180%. It’s the new norm. However I’ve decided to take longer “no computer” breaks in my day. I have to adapt but I need to defend my “take it slow” times and find some analogue hobbies. The shift is rea…

I’ve been taking my son for stroller walks more often over Christmas. I bring a headset for listening to music, podcasts, audiobooks, tech talks. “Be effective.” But I end up just walking and thinking, realising this is “free time”.

It sounds ridiculous and easy to say spending time walking and thinking will improve your decisions and priorities that no productivity hack will.

I only actually did slow down for a while because I had to for the well-being of my family. Sure feels important to not always be on top of everyone else’s business.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#104

Post by shepherdjerred »

superze wrote: post #40

As an Opus user, I genuinely don’t understand how someone can work for weeks or months without regularly opening an IDE. The output almost always fails. I repeatedly rewrite prompts, restate the same constraints, and write detailed acceptance criteria, yet still end up with broken or non-functional code.its very frustrating to say the least Yesterday alone I spent about $200 on generations that now require significan…

I hardly ever open an IDE anymore.

I use Claude Code and Cursor. What I do:

- use statically typed languages: TypeScript, Go, Rust, Python w/ types

- Setup linters. For TS I have a bunch of custom lint rules (authored by AI) for common feedback that I've given. (https://github.com/shepherdjerred/monorepo/tree/main/package...)

- For Cursor, lots of feedback on my desired style. https://github.com/shepherdjerred/scout-for-lol/tree/main/.c...

- Heavy usage of plan mode. Tell AI something like "make at least 20 searches to online documentation", support every claim with a reference, etc. Tell AI "make a task for every little thing you'll implement"

- Have the AI write tests, particularly the more expensive ones like integration and end-to-end, so you have an easy way to verify functionality.

- Setup Claude Code GHA to automatically review PRs. Give the review feedback to the agent that implemented it, either via copy-pasting or tell the agent "fetch review comments and fix them".

Some examples of what I've made:

- Many features for https://scout-for-lol.com/, a League of Legends bot for Discord

- A program to generate TypeScript types for Helm charts (https://github.com/shepherdjerred/homelab/tree/main/src/helm...)

- A program to summarize all of the dependency updates for my Homelab (https://github.com/shepherdjerred/homelab/tree/main/src/deps...)

- A program to manage multiple instances of CLI agents like Claude Code (https://github.com/shepherdjerred/monorepo/tree/main/package...)

- A Discord AI bot in the style of my friends (https://github.com/shepherdjerred/monorepo/tree/main/package...)

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#105

Post by scellus »

rambojohnson wrote: post #58

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

My work is better than it has been for decades. Now I can finally think and experiment instead of wasting my time on coding nitty-gritty detail, impossible to abstract. Last autumn was the game changer, basically Codex and later Opus 4.5; the latter is good with any decent scaffolding.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#106

Post by simonw »

tyre wrote: post #102
simonw wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think AI-assisted programming may be having the opposite effect, at least for me. I'm now incentivized to use less abstractions. Why do we code with React? It's because synchronizing state between a UI and a data model is difficult and it's easy to make mistakes, so it's worth paying the React complexity/page-weight tax in order for a "better developer experience" that allows us to build working, reliable software…

For moment you an use `date-fns` and tree shake. I'd rather have LLMs build on top of proven, battle-tested production libraries than keep writing their own from scratch. You're going to fill up context with all of its re-invented wheels when it already knows how to use common options. Not to mention that testing things like this is hard . And why waste time (and context and complexity) for humans and LLMs trying to…

Every dependency carries a cost. You are effectively outsourcing part of the future maintenance of your project to an external team.

This can often be a very solid bet, but it can also occasionally backfire if the library you chose falls out of date and is no longer maintained.

For this reason I lean towards fewer dependencies, and have a high bar for when a dependency is worth adding to a project.

I prefer a dozen well vetted dependencies to hundreds of smaller ones that each solve a problem that I could have solved effectively without them.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#107

Post by 2sk21 »

xzkll wrote: post #34

Does any of you bother the fact that now you have to pay money in order to do your job? I mean AI model subscriptions. Somehow it feels wrong for me to pay for tools that are trying to replace me.

IDEs used to be extremely expensive back in the 1990s. IDEs such as Microsoft Visual Studio and IBM's Visual age for Java were quite expensive subscription as I recall. subsequently, open source IDEs like Eclipse and VisualStudio seem to have become the norm.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#108

Post by rgreeko42 »

torben-friis wrote: post #99
rambojohnson wrote: post #58

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

Our industry wants disruption, speed, delivery! Automatic code generation does that wonderfully. If we wanted safety, stability, performance, and polish, the impact of LLMs would be more limited. They have a tendency to pile up code on top of code. I think the new tech is just accelerating an already existing problem. Most tech products are already rotting, take a look at windows or iOS. I wonder what will it take fo…

disruption is a code word for deregulation, and deregulation is bad for everyone except execs and investors

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#109

Post by chasd00 »

scellus wrote: post #105
rambojohnson wrote: post #58

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

My work is better than it has been for decades. Now I can finally think and experiment instead of wasting my time on coding nitty-gritty detail, impossible to abstract. Last autumn was the game changer, basically Codex and later Opus 4.5; the latter is good with any decent scaffolding.

I have to admit, LLMs do save a lot of typing a d associated syntax errors. If you know what you want and can spot and fix mistakes made by the LLM then they can be pretty useful. I don’t think it’s wise to use them for development if you are not knowledgeable enough in the domain and language to recognize errors or dead ends in the generated code though.

Re: Karpathy on Programming: “I've never felt this much behind”

#110

Post by azangru »

simonw wrote: post #100
rambojohnson wrote: post #58

What exhausts me isn’t “falling behind.” It’s watching the profession collectively decide that the solution to uncertainty is to pile abstraction on top of abstraction until no one can explain what’s actually happening anymore. This agentic arms race by C-suite know-nothings feels less like leverage and more like denial. We took a stochastic text generator, noticed it lies confidently, wipes entire databases and hard…

I think AI-assisted programming may be having the opposite effect, at least for me. I'm now incentivized to use less abstractions. Why do we code with React? It's because synchronizing state between a UI and a data model is difficult and it's easy to make mistakes, so it's worth paying the React complexity/page-weight tax in order for a "better developer experience" that allows us to build working, reliable software…

> Why do we code with React?

...is a loaded question, with a complex and nuanced answer. Especially when you continue:

> it's worth paying the React complexity/page-weight tax

All right; then why do we code in React when a smaller alternative, such as Preact, exists, which solves the same problem, but for a much lower page-weight tax?

Why do we code in React when a mechanism to synchronize data with tiny UI fragments through signals exists, as exemplified by Solid?

Why do people use React to code things where data doesn't even change, or changes so little that to sync it with the UI does not present any challenge whatsoever, such as blogs or landing pages?

I don't think the question 'why do we code with React?' has a simple and satisfactory answer anymore. I am sure marketing and educational practices play a large role in it.

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