Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this. • Hacker News Board

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#31

Post by loumf » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:00 PM UTC

zapdrive wrote: post #26

bryanlarsen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple can get away with this because they aren't a monopoly. Their market share isn't anywhere close to the 90% that Microsoft enjoys. They temporarily enjoyed a 90% share of tablet sales, but that has since dropped substantially. This is probably a good thing from Apple's perspective, since if it would have stayed at 90% then they probably would have the DOJ on their back for their monopolistic practices.

The problem is, the 33% smartphone market is 100% controlled by Apple. Nobody can enter that market, unless they have Apple's blessing.

I also cannot set up a lemonade stand inside of a Walmart.

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#32

Post by bryanlarsen » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:00 PM UTC

zapdrive wrote: post #29

bryanlarsen wrote: post #20

Can you elaborate on your "100% safe and secure" claim? You appear to have a "reset your password" link, which is a big red flag that indicates to me that any data I store on your service is not private. To me "100% safe and secure" means that if you lose your password you lose your data, because it has been encrypted with the lost password.

Well, this is kind of off-topic for this thread. But anyways, the text you quoted actually says: "No downloads or installation required. 100% safe and secure!" That means, you are not vulnerable to any virus or trojans, as you are not downloading and running some software to use our service.

That's too bad. Storing encrypted volumes on Dropbox is a PITA. I'd readily switch from paying $0 to Dropbox to paying $20 to you if I could stop doing that.

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#33

Post by zapdrive » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:03 PM UTC

loumf wrote: post #31

zapdrive wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, the 33% smartphone market is 100% controlled by Apple. Nobody can enter that market, unless they have Apple's blessing.

I also cannot set up a lemonade stand inside of a Walmart.

But you can setup a lemonade stand elsewhere and sell to people who buy at Walmart.

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#34

Post by zapdrive » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:08 PM UTC

loumf wrote: post #30

zapdrive wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what we did. But it did not work. If you are thinking about Netflix or Kindle App, 1.14 of the "App Store Review Guidelines" says: "Apps can read or play approved content (specifically magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, and video) that is subscribed to or purchased outside of the App, as long as there is no button or external link in the App to purchase the approved content. Apple will not receive…

I use apps connected to pay SaaS services (Concur, SalesForce) -- the apps are free with no IAP, but my company pays a lot for them. Yammer has pay services and a free iOS app with no IAP. I think if you look for them, you will see tons of apps like this that are the front-end to a SaaS service (not content) -- why is yours any different?

Well, thats another thing we are exploring. If a third party developer makes an App "ZapDrive Browser" using our API and does not link to the website, that should be ok. Because, technically, they can not offer IAP, since they can't do it in first place. Its like developers using Dropbox API in their Apps, as long as they don't point to Dropbox, they are approved.

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#35

Post by onetwothreefour » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:15 PM UTC

If you can't make your business work on $x * 70%, you can't make your business work.

Every SaaS faces the same issue you have. And they (mostly) still offer IAP. That's because you might lose the 30% on the first sale, but usually renewals happen out of band.

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#36

Post by loumf » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:19 PM UTC

zapdrive wrote: post #33

loumf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also cannot set up a lemonade stand inside of a Walmart.

But you can setup a lemonade stand elsewhere and sell to people who buy at Walmart.

You can sell your service to people that have iPads.

This is the fundamental question of what an iPad is. Apple would like it to be treated as an extension of their store, and you want it to be like a Windows PC. Any consumer that agrees with you is free to jailbreak -- your problem is that consumers seem to have no problem with Apple's model -- they probably don't understand it, but they haven't perceived an indirect drawback either.

Developers should have their eyes wide open about it by now.

So, the right thing, if your intention is to change their behavior is to not support them. Don't buy it, don't develop for it, encourage others to do the same.

The thing is ... everyone wants one and wants to develop for them.

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#37

Post by zapdrive » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:20 PM UTC

onetwothreefour wrote: post #35

If you can't make your business work on $x * 70%, you can't make your business work. Every SaaS faces the same issue you have. And they (mostly) still offer IAP. That's because you might lose the 30% on the first sale, but usually renewals happen out of band.

What do you mean that we will lose 30% from only the first sale? If a user subscribes using IAP, their subsequent payments will also be charged a 30% fee by Apple. Won't they?

And its not the question of whether we can do business at $x * 70% or not. We would love to give 30% to someone who actually brings a customer to us (we actually have a 20% recurring commission for our affiliates). The question is how is Apple entitled to that cut?

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#38

Post by zapdrive » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:24 PM UTC

loumf wrote: post #36

zapdrive wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can setup a lemonade stand elsewhere and sell to people who buy at Walmart.

You can sell your service to people that have iPads. This is the fundamental question of what an iPad is. Apple would like it to be treated as an extension of their store, and you want it to be like a Windows PC. Any consumer that agrees with you is free to jailbreak -- your problem is that consumers seem to have no problem with Apple's model -- they probably don't understand it, but they haven't perceived an indirec…

No, we can not sell our service to people who have iPads without paying a 30% cut to Apple.

Again, as mentioned in the article, we think there is nothing wrong with Apple having an App Store and charging a 30% fee. What's wrong is, Apple forcing everyone to use their App Store for distributing Apps.

"Don't buy it, don't develop for it, encourage others to do the same" - That is the whole point of this article.

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#39

Post by loumf » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 8:31 PM UTC

zapdrive wrote: post #34

loumf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use apps connected to pay SaaS services (Concur, SalesForce) -- the apps are free with no IAP, but my company pays a lot for them. Yammer has pay services and a free iOS app with no IAP. I think if you look for them, you will see tons of apps like this that are the front-end to a SaaS service (not content) -- why is yours any different?

Well, thats another thing we are exploring. If a third party developer makes an App "ZapDrive Browser" using our API and does not link to the website, that should be ok. Because, technically, they can not offer IAP, since they can't do it in first place. Its like developers using Dropbox API in their Apps, as long as they don't point to Dropbox, they are approved.

My apps are from Salesforce, Yammer and Concur -- not third parties. I would bet there are 100's or 1000's of apps like this -- just look at the EMR space: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/drchrono-emr/id363897223?mt=8

Your way is another, but I think unnecessary.

You might have a bad reviewer -- collect 50 examples like the above and ask why you are different.

Re: Why every iPhone/iPad owner needs to read this.

#40

Post by zapdrive » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 9:05 PM UTC

loumf wrote: post #39

zapdrive wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, thats another thing we are exploring. If a third party developer makes an App "ZapDrive Browser" using our API and does not link to the website, that should be ok. Because, technically, they can not offer IAP, since they can't do it in first place. Its like developers using Dropbox API in their Apps, as long as they don't point to Dropbox, they are approved.

My apps are from Salesforce, Yammer and Concur -- not third parties. I would bet there are 100's or 1000's of apps like this -- just look at the EMR space: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/drchrono-emr/id363897223?mt=8 Your way is another, but I think unnecessary. You might have a bad reviewer -- collect 50 examples like the above and ask why you are different.

Thats a good point you raise. But at the end, there is the ultimate reason that Apple has: "Just because other Apps are doing this, does not mean you can do this too." I think they have put "cloud storage" into a category, that has to offer IAP. Since they made Dropbox and Google Drive offer IAPs already, they expect every new entrant to follow in line. I am sure they will start targeting other SaaS markets as well.