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Market design can feed the poor

worksinprogress.co

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Re: Market design can feed the poor

#21

Post by holbrad »

_rpxpx wrote: post #20
dauertewigkeit wrote: post #6

The article really wants to drive home how bad "central planning" is, but the problem, as per the article, originates from the fact that the food banks themselves are operating semi-independently from Feeding America. So actually the whole problem originates because you already have decentralization, which is the opposite of central planning. And this is a common situation with a lot of public services when they do a…

Brilliantly put. Also, the very fact that there are millions of underfed people in the richest country in the world, is itself evidence of the economic failure of markets. As Richard Wolff put it: in a milk shortage, markets allocate milk to the people with the most money - i.e. the least need for milk. That's not efficient.

There generally aren't underfed people in the US. This just simply isn't true.

The opposite is a far bigger issue.

Re: Market design can feed the poor

#22

Post by jimnotgym »

Taek wrote: post #7
jimnotgym wrote: post #4

What absolute rubbish this article is from top to bottom. A stupid system was replaced by a slightly more effective one... and it was 'markets and economists' that did it! Pure propaganda. Heres a more efficient system. How much does the food box they give out cost? Say $50? Just give the customers $50 and let them spend it. No more admin

I have close acquaintances who will take that $50, spend it on drugs, and then starve to death. If you want them to stay alive, you have to give them non-money. If everyone spent money like a rational, 100 IQ individual with a moderate amount of schooling on basic financial strategies, it'd be a lot easier to manage a population. Unfortunately, less than half of the population is 100 IQ, and in some areas less than 5…

> I have close acquaintances who will take that $50, spend it on drugs, and then starve to death.

I'm sure we can all think of edge cases. I'm sure there are people who will trade the food for drugs some how. They probably need addiction and mental health help, rather than someone who 'knows what is good for them'

Re: Market design can feed the poor

#23

Post by didibus »

It's an interesting case study, and I'm glad it worked for them. But I feel there would have been many other ways to solve the problem.

In fact, one thing I'm confused about, and that's not very clear to me, it sounds like prior to this new system, each food bank would just receive a random selection of foods of a given weight. But with the new system, they can choose exactly what foods they want to receive.

If so, this is a huge difference that has nothing to do with the bidding. A lot of the inefficiencies were probably due to this alone. You'd be getting things you don't need and not those you do and it created waste.

Now food banks could pick and choose what they needed.

This even justifies the introduction of bidding. Because once you have a proper catalogue and food banks can choose what they want, you have the problem of what if they all want the same limited quantity items?

You can make it first come first served. Now food banks would compete on being the quickest to enter their order. Or you can do other things, they went with bidding.

From that angle, bidding actually can look a lot fairer and "socialist" than "first come first served".

Re: Market design can feed the poor

#24

Post by btreecat »

sparselogic wrote: post #18
btreecat wrote: post #5

>The system operated in ignorance of what food banks needed. Clearly the root of the problem. Straw Manning "central planning" is a perverted way to characterize the failure.

Straw manning? One of the earliest critiques of central planning was its inability to learn and respond to unforeseen complexity in the real world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

The solution proposed was to adopt a plan from some other centralized committee.

The committee being common to both solutions likely wasn't the problem given the increased success of the second solution. It was the ability to take into account the difference in resource need and utility. That could have been done by the first group, and would have likely produced a better result.

Central planning doesn't require you to ignore the needs of the people you're planning for.

Re: Market design can feed the poor

#25

Post by btreecat »

holbrad wrote: post #21
_rpxpx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brilliantly put. Also, the very fact that there are millions of underfed people in the richest country in the world, is itself evidence of the economic failure of markets. As Richard Wolff put it: in a milk shortage, markets allocate milk to the people with the most money - i.e. the least need for milk. That's not efficient.

There generally aren't underfed people in the US. This just simply isn't true. The opposite is a far bigger issue.

> There generally aren't underfed people in the US. This just simply isn't true. > > The opposite is a far bigger issue.

I'm sorry but what's the basis for this claim?

Re: Market design can feed the poor

#26

Post by yesfitz »

btreecat wrote: post #25
holbrad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There generally aren't underfed people in the US. This just simply isn't true. The opposite is a far bigger issue.

> There generally aren't underfed people in the US. This just simply isn't true. > > The opposite is a far bigger issue. I'm sorry but what's the basis for this claim?

I'm not the person you asked, but I assume their basis is that the majority of the Adult US Population is overweight or obese.[1]

However, we're conflating the related problems of hunger, food insecurity, and malnutrition. Food insecurity at its most extreme will result in hunger (a lack of any food), but the affordable food that is available in food deserts (and at food banks) is often ultraprocessed and incompletely nutritious, which can lead to obesity.[2]

Largely, Americans don't seem to be affected by "hunger" as defined by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization[3], but are very affected by malnutrition and food insecurity (as defined by that same body).

1: https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statisti... 2: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9790279/#jhn12994-s... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger#Definition_and_related_...

Re: Market design can feed the poor

#27

Post by jjk166 »

Given how horribly structured the original system was, I'm pretty sure literally any change would be a massive improvement.

I don't suppose anyone took a look at how that original system came into effect, or why it remained in place for decades. Based on what little was presented in the article, it seems the organization, and likely others in the same camp, are unfamiliar with and/or reluctant to employ continuous improvement techniques.

Re: Market design can feed the poor

#28

Post by MrSkelter »

This reads like straight propaganda.

An inefficient system is always going to be ineffective. The author tries to posit that anything that isn’t market based is inherently inefficient and that their Chicago School solution is a success because it’s market based.

None of this is supported with evidence outside the new system working better than the old one.

Militaries efficiently allocate nutrition without markets (it’s the most important work they do) as do grocers.

There are a lot of ways you could improve on this, many not requiring the complexity and overhead of market based solutions.

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