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Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

arstechnica.com

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Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#81

Post by Permik »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #9

> We gave up the headphone jack. We gave up the microSD card. Some people might have given it up. I personally own a Sony Xperia phone, and intend to buy another Xperia next year, which will almost certainly still have both. In fact Sony is the one manufacturer that returned to a headphone jack after having removed it for a while. It might be more expensive than the competition, but this is my voting with my wallet.

Do note that unfortunately any future devices by Sony are just phones by other manufacturers that are just Sony branded. Sony stopped their first party device manufacturing, so your mileage of the hardware might be wildly different in the future.

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#82

Post by izacus »

parliament32 wrote: post #55
izacus wrote: post #43

My telco requires that I receive an SMS on my eSIM to move it to new phone so... yeah. It's amazing if the phone for whatever reason doesn't work and that then requires a long customer support call that might not work. The direct phone-to-phone transfter the devices offer is also blocked on the carrier. Another issue I had was (travel) eSIMs failing to provision because the carrier didn't whitelist my phone brand/mod…

> requires that I receive an SMS on my eSIM to move it to new phone So there's no CS path for lost/stolen/destroyed phones? That doesn't make sense, I'm sure it's a very frequent occurrence.

It's "call us" which is interesting to do without a working SIM. :)

(The carrier is a M NO so they don't really have physical customer support either.)

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#83

Post by digitalPhonix »

kevincox wrote: post #76

The problem with SIMs is that they aren't just credentials and config. They are full applications. Imagine if you needed to run a custom program to connect to every wifi network. It is bonkers. It is absurdly complex and insecure. A "SIM" should just be a keypair. The subscriber use it to access the network.

It’s more complicated because it has to include logic about which network to connect to and how to tunnel back to the original provider (or partner) while roaming.

So it’s more like: which network to connect to, keys, fallback network selection logic and tunnel logic to get authorisation on a non-home network

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#84

Post by kevincox »

digitalPhonix wrote: post #83
kevincox wrote: post #76

The problem with SIMs is that they aren't just credentials and config. They are full applications. Imagine if you needed to run a custom program to connect to every wifi network. It is bonkers. It is absurdly complex and insecure. A "SIM" should just be a keypair. The subscriber use it to access the network.

It’s more complicated because it has to include logic about which network to connect to and how to tunnel back to the original provider (or partner) while roaming. So it’s more like: which network to connect to, keys, fallback network selection logic and tunnel logic to get authorisation on a non-home network

That's a good point. That is what I meant by "and config" in my first sentence.

IIUC if the keypair was a certificate with a few other fields foreign networks could give you some basic communication with your provider and decided if you should be allowed to use this network and if/how to tunnel you back to the home network.

But the main point is that it should just be data that the user can port around to different devices as they see fit and that they can trust not to do malicious things.

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#85

Post by izacus »

spwa4 wrote: post #77
waweic wrote: post #16

Technologically, eSIMs are pretty nice. The electrical interface between the phone modem and the eSIM is the same as with a real SIM card, and the eSIM can run the same applications as a real SIM card, so at this point you can buy smartcards that can be swapped between devices and run eSIM applications. esim.me, 9esim and the "sysmocom eUICC for eSIM" (seems to be the most open/friendly at this point) are some of the…

The spec allows carriers to disallow removal of an eSIM, to allow for subsidized phone business models (in other words: this change was demanded by the carriers). So you should blame the carrier, not the manufacturer that simply implements the spec. It might be nice if manufacturers implement a HUUGE LOUD warning when enabling an eSIM that requires carrier authorization to remove though. Someone should put that in th…

Did "blaming the carrier" ever work for you when they were abusing you as a customer?

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#86

Post by Zak »

Elfener wrote: post #53
backwardsponcho wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL that the Xperia line is still alive and kicking. Sweet phones!

Unforunately they're "downscaling" their operations in Europe, so I guess they're having trouble competing with other phones: https://www.gsmarena.com/is_sony_pulling_its_smartphone_busi...

They've always had uncompetitive pricing. I'm not surprised sales are low.

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#87

Post by Sargos »

abigail95 wrote: post #17

Totally different experience. Especially when traveling for work, being able to just show up in a country, download an app, and have a working local number within minutes is fantastic. I have 6 eSIMs on my iPhone, two are active. No stuffing about with swapping physical hardware just because I've temporarily relocated myself.

>being able to just show up in a country, download an app

This seems like a "draw the rest of the owl" situation. If I arrive in a new country with no phone data (which is why I need a sim in the first place) then how do I download an app? Being able to walk up to a guy at the airport and within seconds slide in a SIM solves that data problem.

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#88

Post by tzs »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #40
pxx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

latency is absolute killer. then there's also the fact that splitting the output is difficult, pairing (especially multi-pairing) is finicky but the real response is "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"

> "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter" I want to charge and listen to music at the same time.

You can get adapters that support charging. An example is linked below.

Note: I have not tried this. It is simply offered as an example to show they are available.

https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-...

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#89

Post by Zak »

secondcoming wrote: post #79

My min spec requirements for a phone are 5G, physical dual SIM support, and a 3.5mm audio jack

I'm curious as to why 5G is on the requirements list.

3G made web browsing viable. 4G made streaming video viable. I haven't seen any new applications enabled by 5G on end-user smartphones.

Re: Swapping SIM cards used to be easy, and then came eSIM

#90

Post by neelc »

The funny thing is, I used eSIM on a Pixel 3, since it was the easiest way to activate on Sprint. Now, no big carrier will use a Pixel 3's eSIM.

But then on Sprint, they tried to copy the CDMA activation system on LTE whereas everyone else just used SIM cards directly. Sprint was very progressive on eSIM even if they were slow to VoLTE.

My Pixel 3 moved to a physical SIM due to switching to T-Mobile 3 months before the merger, and I've mostly used physical SIMs before the Pixel 10 Pro outside of international travel. I avoid MVNOs as my primary service because of the specter of eSIM-only phones, and that was pre-Pixel 10.

And yes, if my Pixel 10 Pro had a physical SIM card slot I'd use it.

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