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Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

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Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#521

Post by spankibalt »

Zealotux wrote: post #221
BloondAndDoom wrote: post #131

I feel like we lost humanity somewhere in modern world. I grew up in 3rd world country and if this were to happen, train would literally stop somewhere, anywhere. (With the assumption it’s safe from crewing into another train). But the idea that you go 55 minutes just because of policy; and skip 15 stations is crazy to me. Again with the assumptions that it can safely stop somewhere for 5m and I’m pretty sure the ans…

I worked for a massive German company you heard of, this sounds more like the typical German philosophy of strictly following the process -- as absurd as it might be -- and refusing to take initiative for anything that is not explicitly defined as one's responsibility. As a French, the culture shock was brutal and I never really got around that work attitude. I went through a similar issue back when I used to take a…

> "[...] this sounds more like the typical German philosophy of strictly following the process -- as absurd as it might be -- and refusing to take initiative for anything that is not explicitly defined as one's responsibility."

Neither absurdity nor "German philosophy", but just stock-standard safety and security culture in action. Or more specifically in this case: generelle and objektspezifische Dienstanweisungen (general and location-specific administrative instructions or regulations) [1]. You don't follow them, it's you who's on the hook. :)

And when was the last time anyone here visited a railway control centre in a metropolitan area? Yeah.

1. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dienstanweisung]

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#522

Post by cbmuser »

helloguillecl wrote: post #520

Something similar happened to me between Essen and Dortmund while trying to get to the airport. The train stoped around 50 minutes between stations without a chance of getting off the train. I lost my flight as a result. I have also been left in remote villages when the last train of the day broke for some reason at 12:30 am. All travellers and myself had to look for Ubers, which the government also tries to suppress…

> All travellers and myself had to look for Ubers, which the government also tries to suppress.

No one is trying to suppress Uber. They are just obligated to adhere to the law like anyone else in this business.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#523

Post by pama »

Totally reminds me of Manhattan subways deciding to skip 6 stops after making some static noise on the speakers that nobody understands, and leaving you on a station that you have to pay reentry fee to go back the five stops you overrun (or run the lottery of staying for longer in case the next stop has an easy transfer.) Hopefully some day these absurdities of modern life will be fixed.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#524

Post by wslh »

BloondAndDoom wrote: post #131

I feel like we lost humanity somewhere in modern world. I grew up in 3rd world country and if this were to happen, train would literally stop somewhere, anywhere. (With the assumption it’s safe from crewing into another train). But the idea that you go 55 minutes just because of policy; and skip 15 stations is crazy to me. Again with the assumptions that it can safely stop somewhere for 5m and I’m pretty sure the ans…

> I grew up in 3rd world country and if this were to happen, train would literally stop somewhere, anywhere.

In many places without rigid rule enforcement, that kind of flexibility can actually feel more humane in practice, even if the overall system is worse. What frustrates me in the US (and sometimes in Europe) isn't rules themselves, but how aggressively and impersonally they're enforced in very ordinary situations.

For example, a friend of mine in New York casually crossed a line at a small PlayStation event and was stopped by a bodyguard as if he were bypassing airport immigration. I had a similar experience at a small event, maybe 300 people, where I tried to cross a line to get coffee and was abruptly blocked by security (they were just preparing the snacks).

Compared to more informal cultures, this kind of hyper enforcement can feel oddly hostile, especially when it's disconnected from any real safety concern.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#525

Post by T0Bi »

indiantinker wrote: post #17

DB is weird. They seem to make their own rules and then run the game and “dont tell the rules to anyone”. I was on my way to catch a flight from Munich to my home (Madrid). I didn’t knew that apparently at one point the train splits into two parts and the front part goes to the airport and the other part just goes to the nearby cattle farms and comes back in 3 hours. Google Maps - No idea Citymapper - what? English a…

When was this? Took the train (S1) last week and every single screen at the stations and in the train explains this in detail and there are probably 20 announcements both in German and English telling everybody which coach goes to the airport and which to Freising.

It's not that complicated.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#526

Post by saagarjha »

abigail95 wrote: post #406
saagarjha wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not shoot the driver and take control of the train?

The ad absurdum of this situation would be DB escalating it into a full on hijacking scenario where they run the train in a loop, forever claiming the train cannot ever stop. In that situation - you do what is necessary to stop the train, because nobody else will, which might involve killing the driver. The reason you don't jump straight to shooting the driver is that doesn't achieve your goals. There is a long list…

Ok, I think I understand your viewpoint better. You will do the minimum necessary to make the outcome you want happen, regardless of what it might be. The goal you want and the actions needed to make it come about need not be proportional.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#528

Post by saagarjha »

abigail95 wrote: post #420
saagarjha wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the decision made by the train here sucks, but I think it's pretty clear that the use of "kidnapped" is hyperbole. You are not "kidnapped" if the bus driver refuses to let you get down in the middle of the freeway. The situation is a little similar if the driver is taking you to somewhere you don't want to go, because that is also what a kidnapper does, but that's where the similarities end.

I'm not asking the bus driver to stop in the middle of a highway. I'm asking the bus driver not to go past 15 actual bus stops before letting me off. With the drivers rationale being - "This bus is not registered at any of those stops".

If you’re on an express bus it will do that though?

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#529

Post by [deleted] »

kwanbix wrote: post #273

I lived in Berlin for 10 years. In my experience, people complain too much about German public transport. But comming from a south american country with reasonably good public transport, I found German's one very good. The only thing I can agree is the "speaking only in german as if it was the lingua franca of the world". Germany is part of the EU. The EU has 24 langueages. You should at least speak in English. And n…

[deleted]

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#530

Post by fastball »

gkoz wrote: post #431
purpleflame1257 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venkatesh Rao offers the following definition of the "Fourth World" Fourth world: Parts of the developed world that have collapsed past third-world conditions because industrial safety nets have simultaneously withered from neglect/underfunding, and are being overwhelmed by demand, but where pre-modern societal structures don’t exist as backstops anymore. This is what this story reminds me of.

There's no indication of any failures of the industrial layer in this story. The train was working, it didn't crash into anything, everyone was safe.

Safety failures are not the only type of failure.
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