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As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

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Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#201

Post by layer8 »

addaon wrote: post #15
jazzyjackson wrote: post #12

Question: are SoCs with on die memory be effected by this? Looks like the frame.work desktop with Ryzen 128GB is shipping now at same price it was on release, Apple is offering 512GB Mac studios Are snapdragon chips the same way?

> Question: are SoCs with on die memory be effected by this? SoCs with on-die memory (which is, these days, exclusively SRAM, since I don't think IBM's eDRAM process for mixing DRAM with logic is still in production) will not be effected. SiPs with on-package DRAM, including Apple's A and M series SiPs and Qualcomm's Snapdragon, will be effected -- they use the same DRAM dice as everyone else.

*affected

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#202

Post by Ekaros »

system2 wrote: post #187
Ekaros wrote: post #134

Outside say video and image editing and maybe lossless audio. Why is this much ram even needed in most use cases? And I mean actually thinking about using it. Computer code unless you are actually doing whole Linux kernel, is just text. So lot of projects probably would fit in cache. Maybe software companies should be billed for user's resources too...

I have multiple apps using 300 GB+ PostgreSQL databases. For some queries, high RAM is required. I enable symmetrical NVMe swaps, too. Average Joe with gaming needs wouldn't need more than 64 GB for a long time. But for the database, as the data grows, RAM requirements also grow. I doubt my situation is relatable to many.

I understand servers. But why do actually average user need more than 2 or 4GB? For what actual data in memory at one time?

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#203

Post by goku12 »

lysace wrote: post #193
goku12 wrote: post #185

I understand the issue with all the devices. But what about the rest of the things that depend on these electronics, especially DRAMs? Automotive, Aircraft, Marine vessels, ATC, Shipping coordination, traffic signalling, rail signalling, industrial control systems, public utility (power, water, sewage, etc) control systems, transmission grid control systems, HVAC and environment control systems, weather monitoring ne…

A $100k EV has roughly the same amount of DRAM as a $1k phone. The EV is a therefore, on a whole, a lot less sensitive to DRAM price increases.

Okay, accepted. But are you sure that the supply won't be a problem as well? I mean, even if these products choose a different process nodes compared to the hyperscalers, will the DRAM manufactures even keep those nodes running in favor of these industries?

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#204

Post by layer8 »

mirsadm wrote: post #179
piskov wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple secured at least a year-worth supply of memory (not in actual chips but in prices). The bigger the company = longer the contract. However it will eventually catch up even to Apple. It is not prices alone due to demand but the manufacturing redirection from something like lpddr in iphones to hbm and what have you for servers and gpu

Apple charges so much for RAM upgrades that they could probably not even increase prices and still be fine. They won't but they probably could.

At the cost of reduced margins, which shareholders may not like.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#205

Post by BoredPositron »

palmotea wrote: post #139
torginus wrote: post #133

It's somewhat alarming to see that companies (owned by a very small slice of society) producing these AI thingies (whose current economic is questionable value and actual future potential is up to hot debate), can easily price the rest of humanity out of computing goods.

> It's somewhat alarming to see that companies (owned by a very small slice of society) ... can easily price the rest of humanity out of computing goods. If AI lives up to the hype, it's a portent of how things will feel to the common man. Not only will unemployment be a problem, but prices of any resources desired by the AI companies or their founders will rise to unaffordability.

AI probably will end up living up to the hype. It won't be on the generation of hardware they are now mass deploying. We need another tock before we can even start to talk about AGI.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#207

Post by Ekaros »

rhdunn wrote: post #157
incompatible wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many "great products and services" even need a lot of RAM, assuming that we can live without graphics-intensive games?

Image, video, and music editing. Developing, running, and debugging large applications.

The last three sounds to me like self-inflicted issues. If applications weren't so large, wouldn't less resources be needed?

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#208

Post by fartfeatures »

arnaudsm wrote: post #190

[deleted]

This take is pure Luddite nonsense. AI "lowering labor value while boosting capital" ignores centuries of automation: productivity gains cut costs, expand markets, create new jobs, and raise real wages despite short-term disruption.

Steam engines, electricity, computers displaced workers but spawned far more opportunities through new industries and cheaper goods. Same pattern now.

The "jobless masses stuck with 1GB phones eating slop" fantasy is backwards. Compute keeps getting vastly cheaper and more capable; AI speeds that up.

"Terrible for indie creators and startups"? The opposite: AI obliterates barriers to building, shipping, and competing. Solo founders are moving faster than ever.

It's the same tired doomer script we get with every tech wave. It ages poorly.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#209

Post by atq2119 »

UltraSane wrote: post #158
torginus wrote: post #133

It's somewhat alarming to see that companies (owned by a very small slice of society) producing these AI thingies (whose current economic is questionable value and actual future potential is up to hot debate), can easily price the rest of humanity out of computing goods.

Supply should increase as a response to higher prices, this bringing prices down.

As usual, the problem is: how fast does this happen?

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#210

Post by SunlitCat »

nice_byte wrote: post #162
elthor89 wrote: post #146

If all manufacturers jump into serving the ai market segment. Can this not be a opportunity for new entrants to start serving the other market segments? How hard is it to start and manufacture memory for embedded systems in cars, or pc?

No, because if you have the capacity to make e.g. ram chips it makes more economic sense to sell them for ai bucks. Serving the other market segment is an opportunity cost unless you're selling to them at same prices. In the long run though if enough players emerge the price will eventually come down just due to oversupply.

Not quite. Making specialized DRAM chips for AI hardware needs, requires high tech components. Making low(er) end DRAM chips for consumer needs might be easier to get started with.

I am pretty sure, in the next year we will see a wave of low end ram components coming out of china.

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