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As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

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Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#191

Post by anthk »

kasabali wrote: post #163
MangoToupe wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was only using 6GBs of ram. Insane that this is seen as "better software". I could do basically the same functionality in 2000 with 512mb. I assume this is because everything runs through chrome with dozens more layers of abstraction but

More like 128MB. 512MB in 2000 was like HEDT level (though I'm not sure that acronym existed back then)

512MB weren't that odd for multimedia from 2002, barely a few years later. By 2002 256MB of RAM were the standard, almost a new low-end PC.

64MB = w98se OK, XP will swap a lot on high load, nixlikes really fast with fvwm/wmaker and the like. KDE3 needs 128MB to run well, so get a bit down. No issues with old XFCE releases. Mozilla will crawl, other browsers will run fine.

128MB = w98se really well, XP willl run fine, SP2-3 will lag. Nixlikes will fly with wmaker/icewm/fvwm/blackbox and the like. Good enough for mozilla.

192MB = Really decent for a full KDE3 desktop or for Windows XP with real life speeds.

256MB = Like having 8GB today for Windows 10, Gnome 3 or Plasma 6. Yes, you can run then with 2GB and ZRAM, but, realistically, and for the modern bloated tools, 8GB for a 1080p desktop it's mandatory. Even with UBlock Origin for the browser. Ditto back in the day. With 256MB XP and KDE3 flied and they ran much faster than even Win98 with 192MB of RAM.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#192

Post by baq »

mips_avatar wrote: post #95
nrp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve been able to hold the same price we had at launch because we had buffered enough component inventory before prices reached their latest highs. We will need to increase pricing to cover supplier cost increases though, as we recently did on DDR5 modules. Note that the memory is on the board for Ryzen AI Max, not on the package (as it is for Intel’s Lunar Lake and Apple’s M-series processors) or on die (which woul…

How do suppliers communicate these changes? Are they just like yep now it’s 3x higher? Im surprised you don’t have longer contracts

If you’re Apple, maybe that works, in this case we’re seeing 400% increases in price, instead of your RAM you’ll be delivered a note to pay up or you’ll get your money back with interest and termination fees and the supplier is still net positive.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#193

Post by lysace »

goku12 wrote: post #185

I understand the issue with all the devices. But what about the rest of the things that depend on these electronics, especially DRAMs? Automotive, Aircraft, Marine vessels, ATC, Shipping coordination, traffic signalling, rail signalling, industrial control systems, public utility (power, water, sewage, etc) control systems, transmission grid control systems, HVAC and environment control systems, weather monitoring ne…

A $100k EV has roughly the same amount of DRAM as a $1k phone.

The EV is a therefore, on a whole, a lot less sensitive to DRAM price increases.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#194

Post by synack »

goku12 wrote: post #185

I understand the issue with all the devices. But what about the rest of the things that depend on these electronics, especially DRAMs? Automotive, Aircraft, Marine vessels, ATC, Shipping coordination, traffic signalling, rail signalling, industrial control systems, public utility (power, water, sewage, etc) control systems, transmission grid control systems, HVAC and environment control systems, weather monitoring ne…

Industrial microcontrollers and power electronics use older process nodes, mostly >=45nm. These customers aren’t competing for wafers from the same fabs as bleeding edge memory and TPUs.

The world ran just fine on DDR3 for a long time.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#195

Post by hvb2 »

dehrmann wrote: post #86
jazzyjackson wrote: post #12

Question: are SoCs with on die memory be effected by this? Looks like the frame.work desktop with Ryzen 128GB is shipping now at same price it was on release, Apple is offering 512GB Mac studios Are snapdragon chips the same way?

I would think so because fab capacity is constrained, and if you make an on-die SoC with less memory, it uses fewer transistors, so you can fit more on a wafer.

But bigger chips mean lower yields because there's just more room for errors?

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#196

Post by lotsofpulp »

arnaudsm wrote: post #188
UltraSane wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supply should increase as a response to higher prices, this bringing prices down.

That's economical theory, but the real world is often non-linear. Crucial is dead. There's a finite amount of rare earth. Wars and floods can bankrupt industries, supply chains are tight.

The business that owns crucial is producing more chips than ever.

Rare earth metals are in the dirt around the world.

Supply and demand curves shifting, hence prices increasing (and decreasing) is an expected part of life due to the inability to see the future.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#197

Post by lanyard-textile »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #143
torginus wrote: post #133

It's somewhat alarming to see that companies (owned by a very small slice of society) producing these AI thingies (whose current economic is questionable value and actual future potential is up to hot debate), can easily price the rest of humanity out of computing goods.

Without regulation, money begets money and monopolies will form. If the American voter base doesn't pull its shit together and revive democracy, we're going to have a bad century. Yesterday I met a man who doesn't vote and I wanted to go ape-shit on him. "My vote doesn't matter". Vote for mayor. Vote for city council. Vote for our House members. Vote for State Senate. Vote for our two Senators. "Voting doesn't matter…

Jovially -- you simultaneously believe that they're a victim of a psy-op *and* that their attitude is self formed?

;) And you wanted to go ape shit on him... For falling for a psy-op?

My friend, morale is very very low. There is no vigor to fight for a better tomorrow in many people's hearts. Many are occupied with the problems of today. It doesn't take a psy-op to reach this level of hopelessness.

Be sick of it all you want, it doesn't change their minds. Perhaps you will find something more persuasive.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#198

Post by Ekaros »

vittore wrote: post #126
ozgrakkurt wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine someone goes to the supermarket and buys all the tomatoes. Then supermarket owner says I don’t know, he bought all at once so it is a better sale. And he sells the remaining 10% of tomatoes at a huge markup

I think it is better compared to Dutch folks buying all the tulip bulbs. And the price skyrocketed.

Tulips were by my understanding more so NFTs. Rich people gambling when bored. With promises for tulips in future... Future contracts for tulips. And prices were high because they were insanely rich merchants.

The RAM looks like cornering market. Probably something OpenAI should be prosecuted for if they end up profiting from it.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#199

Post by Yizahi »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #143
torginus wrote: post #133

It's somewhat alarming to see that companies (owned by a very small slice of society) producing these AI thingies (whose current economic is questionable value and actual future potential is up to hot debate), can easily price the rest of humanity out of computing goods.

Without regulation, money begets money and monopolies will form. If the American voter base doesn't pull its shit together and revive democracy, we're going to have a bad century. Yesterday I met a man who doesn't vote and I wanted to go ape-shit on him. "My vote doesn't matter". Vote for mayor. Vote for city council. Vote for our House members. Vote for State Senate. Vote for our two Senators. "Voting doesn't matter…

It is very likely that his vote for the parliament literally and legally doesn't matter, depending on the party allegiance of the candidates and the state he is in. All because of the non-democratic ancient first past the post system. Though in his place I would go to the station and at least deface a ballot as a sign of contempt.

Re: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise

#200

Post by goku12 »

synack wrote: post #194
goku12 wrote: post #185

I understand the issue with all the devices. But what about the rest of the things that depend on these electronics, especially DRAMs? Automotive, Aircraft, Marine vessels, ATC, Shipping coordination, traffic signalling, rail signalling, industrial control systems, public utility (power, water, sewage, etc) control systems, transmission grid control systems, HVAC and environment control systems, weather monitoring ne…

Industrial microcontrollers and power electronics use older process nodes, mostly >=45nm. These customers aren’t competing for wafers from the same fabs as bleeding edge memory and TPUs. The world ran just fine on DDR3 for a long time.

Okay, but what about the rest? The ones that aren't embedded in someway and use industrial grade PCs/control stations? Or ones with large buffers like network routers? I'm also wondering about the supply of the alternate nodes and older technologies. Will the manufactures keep those lines running? Was it micron that abandoned the entire retail market in favor of supplying the hyperscalers?
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