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Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

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Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#21

Post by embedding-shape »

Neywiny wrote: post #2

Seems like good work. From what I've heard developing on MacOS has not gotten easier over the years. I do question the point, though. I suppose there's merit in knowing if your configuration causes thermal throttling, but what are you able to do about it? There's no fan profile to tweak or anything. Can you undervolt them?

> but what are you able to do about it?

Depends on the environment, back when I had a MacBook, they still had fans, but the new ones are all passive, I think. So then the surface (or lack of it) below it would matter the most. If you keep it in your lap, on top of a hairy blanket, it'll be a lot effective at getting rid of the heat compared to if you have it sitting on a stone table, as just one example.

Edit: Seemingly the split of Air/Pro being passively/actively cooled seems to still apply today, so then checking fans, their performance and intakes/outtakes for chaff tends to be the best way, if you have a Pro.

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#22

Post by vunderba »

Neywiny wrote: post #2

Seems like good work. From what I've heard developing on MacOS has not gotten easier over the years. I do question the point, though. I suppose there's merit in knowing if your configuration causes thermal throttling, but what are you able to do about it? There's no fan profile to tweak or anything. Can you undervolt them?

I've been using Macs-Fan-Control since I picked up a Mac M1 a few years back and it works great. It lets you control the fan RPM based on CPU Core values.

I adjusted it to ramp the fans up at more conservative values because otherwise during intense usage periods it would hit 90C+.

https://github.com/crystalidea/macs-fan-control

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#23

Post by embedding-shape »

somat wrote: post #18
angristan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but what are you able to do about it? On Macbooks with fans, I started tuning my fan curve with iStat Menus ( https://bjango.com/help/istatmenus7/fans/#custom-fan-curve ) because I noticed the default curve was lagging behind and thermal throttling kicked in before the fan even reach max speed. For Apple Silicon specifically, I recently discovered that there is a "high power mode" ( https://support.apple.com/en-us/…

An open question on fan curves Environment: I am currently playing with a pid control function for my gpu fan, that is instead of saying "map temp x to fanspeed y"(fan curve) say "set fan to speed needed for temp z"(pid control) Question: is there a reason pid type control is never a thermal option? Or put another way, is there something about the desired thermal characteristics of a computer that make pid control un…

> "set fan to speed needed for temp z"(pid control)

Why though? I generally don't care about the specific temperatures of my CPU and GPU, just that they don't get too warm, so for the CPU (AIO) I basically have "0% up until 45C, then increment up to 100% when it hits 90C" and the same for the GPU except it's always at 10%.

I guess I could figure out target temperatures, and do it the other way, but I'm not sure what the added complexity is for? The end results (I need at least) remains the same, cool down the hardware when it gets hotter, and for me, the simpler the better.

I also have two ambient temperature sensors in the chassi itself, right at the intake and the outtake. The intake one is just for monitoring if my room gets too warm so the computer won't be effective at cooling (as the summers here get really warm) and the outtake one is to check overall temperature and control the intake fans. In reality, I don't think I need to do even this, just the CPU+GPU temperature + set fan speed based on that feels simple enough to solve 99% of the things you'd like to be able to do here.

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#24

Post by angristan »

nazgu1 wrote: post #16
angristan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah! Yeah I did notice that using `ProcessInfo.processInfo.thermalState`, the state didn't update unless I restarted the process (reproducible even with a swift script). But this issue doesn't happen with the technique I use right now (the thermald notification)

Thanks, I will check your approach. And your app as well, looks beautiful and useful.

Thank you for the kind words :)

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#25

Post by vunderba »

mschuster91 wrote: post #19

Another thing to keep in mind with MacBook Pro models or any other device that has fans... if you have cats, dogs or other heavily shedding animals, you must regularly (for me, once a year, for people with German Shedders more like once a quarter) open them up and thoroughly clean them. The amount of fur that manages to squeeze everywhere is insane.

Husky/Pyr owner here - I have to systematically blow out all of my electronics because she molts enough fur to start my own Etsy brand of stuffed animals.

The WORST thing, though, is that all her fur makes its way into all my musical instruments, including underneath each individual key of my upright piano (now effectively a felt piano).

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#26

Post by angristan »

Neywiny wrote: post #8
jtbayly wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted this app to exist. Now it does! I sometimes face thermal throttling because a process has gone wacko, and all I have to do is kill it. But first I have to notice it. I rarely notice until half my battery is gone!

You know what, fair point. I know because my fans go haywire (except that one time my fans decided to just not work until I ran some incantations. The joys of Linux). If you're passively cooled, you get no feedback on CPU load. Makes sense.

Indeed, that's why apps like iStat Menus, Stats, Sensei etc (for macOS at least) are very useful, I keep the CPU usage and power usage in my menu bar at all times, this is very useful on battery. For example I know that my Macbook Air idles at ~2W-5W, so if I'm doing nothing special and it's using 15W, a process is doing some funny stuff

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#27

Post by saagarjha »

embedding-shape wrote: post #21
Neywiny wrote: post #2

Seems like good work. From what I've heard developing on MacOS has not gotten easier over the years. I do question the point, though. I suppose there's merit in knowing if your configuration causes thermal throttling, but what are you able to do about it? There's no fan profile to tweak or anything. Can you undervolt them?

> but what are you able to do about it? Depends on the environment, back when I had a MacBook, they still had fans, but the new ones are all passive, I think. So then the surface (or lack of it) below it would matter the most. If you keep it in your lap, on top of a hairy blanket, it'll be a lot effective at getting rid of the heat compared to if you have it sitting on a stone table, as just one example. Edit: Seemin…

MacBook Air is passive, MacBook Pro is not

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#28

Post by hu3 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #21
Neywiny wrote: post #2

Seems like good work. From what I've heard developing on MacOS has not gotten easier over the years. I do question the point, though. I suppose there's merit in knowing if your configuration causes thermal throttling, but what are you able to do about it? There's no fan profile to tweak or anything. Can you undervolt them?

> but what are you able to do about it? Depends on the environment, back when I had a MacBook, they still had fans, but the new ones are all passive, I think. So then the surface (or lack of it) below it would matter the most. If you keep it in your lap, on top of a hairy blanket, it'll be a lot effective at getting rid of the heat compared to if you have it sitting on a stone table, as just one example. Edit: Seemin…

New macbooks still have fans. Depending on the model.

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#29

Post by giancarlostoro »

Neywiny wrote: post #2

Seems like good work. From what I've heard developing on MacOS has not gotten easier over the years. I do question the point, though. I suppose there's merit in knowing if your configuration causes thermal throttling, but what are you able to do about it? There's no fan profile to tweak or anything. Can you undervolt them?

I use TG Pro on my Macbook Pro to auto-cool my Mac. It drives me crazy that Apple lets your Mac burn to a crisp before kicking on the fans.

Re: Building a macOS app to know when my Mac is thermal throttling

#30

Post by the_black_hand »

My 2017 macbook is basically brick. Crazy how just opening chrome sets off fans like a jet engine. How much cpu can checking gmail really use?

Foolish me is considering buying a new macbook this year. I have no choice because Apple and Microsoft will do everything in their power to ship the shittiest personal computing products every year.

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