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Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

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Re: Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

#31

Post by netsharc »

Vincent_Yan404 wrote: post #13
grumbelbart wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid question, but is 404 the real designator of that city, or a pun towards the HTTP error code? Edit: And what a great read, thank you!

Not a stupid question at all! 404 is the real, official designator (Factory 404) established in 1958, long before the web existed. The coincidence with the HTTP error code is purely accidental, yet incredibly poetic—because for decades, this city literally could not be found on any public map.

I wonder why 404, any relation to 4 being similar to the word "death" in Chinese?

Re: Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

#32

Post by em500 »

ocfnash wrote: post #22
Vincent_Yan404 wrote: post #2

Hi HN, OP here. I grew up in "Factory 404," a secret nuclear industrial city in the Gobi Desert that officially didn't exist on public maps. This is a memoir about my childhood there. It was a surreal place: we had elite scientists living next to laborers, a zoo in the middle of the desert, and distinct "communist" welfare, all hidden behind a classified code. This is Part 1 of the story. I'm happy to answer any ques…

Thank you for sharing these memories. I'd be very interested to hear any thoughts you might have about Jung Chang's book "Wild Swans". I read this book a year or two ago and learned a lot from it, but I also learned that many people who grew up in China take issue with the author's account. I'd be grateful for any remarks you may be able to share.

What are you looking for exactly? And what issues did you hear from others who grew up in China? Most of the historical / political events (Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution) are fairly accurate, while personal / family experiences are necessarily subjective. China is a huge, diverse country with a vast range of experiences from people growing up in different regions and eras (just like the US, or Europe), so it's hard to dispute any personal / family experience.

Re: Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

#33

Post by Vincent_Yan404 »

yorwba wrote: post #26
Vincent_Yan404 wrote: post #2

Hi HN, OP here. I grew up in "Factory 404," a secret nuclear industrial city in the Gobi Desert that officially didn't exist on public maps. This is a memoir about my childhood there. It was a surreal place: we had elite scientists living next to laborers, a zoo in the middle of the desert, and distinct "communist" welfare, all hidden behind a classified code. This is Part 1 of the story. I'm happy to answer any ques…

Since you mention a trip to Beijing, I wonder what the security precautions were to keep the secret base secret. I assume visitors from other cities would need to apply for a travel permit similar to the one still required for some border areas in Xinjiang and Tibet, but were there also restrictions on people leaving?

That’s a great question. In the early days, physical travel permits were indeed the norm. But the most effective 'security precaution' was psychological.

We had secrecy education (保密教育) starting as early as primary school. We were taught from a very young age that our city didn't exist to the outside world, and we simply didn't talk about it. But when I was a kid ,I didn't know anything about 404.

Re: Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

#34

Post by Vincent_Yan404 »

microtonal wrote: post #25
Vincent_Yan404 wrote: post #2

Hi HN, OP here. I grew up in "Factory 404," a secret nuclear industrial city in the Gobi Desert that officially didn't exist on public maps. This is a memoir about my childhood there. It was a surreal place: we had elite scientists living next to laborers, a zoo in the middle of the desert, and distinct "communist" welfare, all hidden behind a classified code. This is Part 1 of the story. I'm happy to answer any ques…

I just wanted to say ‘thank you!’. This was a really interesting read, looking forward to the next part!

Thank you! I will post on Monday.

Re: Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

#35

Post by NotGMan »

>> Witnessing such scorched-earth containment makes the modern definition of nuclear power as the ‘cleanest energy’ completely incomprehensible to me.

It's called bad governing. To connect nuclear "not clean" with such bad governing is bit much.

Re: Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

#37

Post by martin-t »

tomcam wrote: post #10

My father-in-law worked there as a programmer during the Cultural Revolution. There were always guards on the other side of the (locked) office door. Sometimes they’d shoot at random things to remind the nerds just who was in charge. When I worked at Microsoft the biggest complaints were parking and the variety of subsidized foods at the cafeteria.

While I absolutely agree that in the current state of things most western people are so well off they can't even imagine what it means to actually be oppressed and suffer, I can't help but notice that the current state of things can quickly change and that we're in a constant yet barely visible struggle with forces that want to bring about just that kind of oppression here and that we're slowly losing it.

You might think this is about the rise of fascism[0] in the US, Chat Control in the EU, the failure of revolution in Belarus and Turkey, censorship in the UK, martial law in South Korea, etc. But it's about all of those.

I am reminded that the only real power comes from violence (performed or threatened) and that we keep building cool stuff because we get paid a lot, yet we don't own the product of our work and it is increasingly being used against us. We don't have guns to our heads yet but the goal of AI is to remove what little bargaining power we have by making us economically redundant.

At every point in history, oppressing a group of people required controlling another (smaller but better armed) group of people willing to perform the oppression. And for the first time in history, "thanks" to AI and robotics, this requirement will be lifted.

[0]: https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...

Re: Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

#39

Post by martin-t »

> Our license plates started with “Gan-A,” the same as the provincial capital. We laughed at people from other cities like Jiayuguan (“Gan-B”) or Jiuquan (“Gan-F”). Even as kids, we joked, “We’re still number one.” Because our grandparents were the country’s elite and we lived in the “Nuclear City,” I always felt like I was living at the center of the world.

Am I reading too much into this or does China have a culture of competition which involves mocking those you deem below you even for the most shallow reasons?

Re: Growing up in “404 Not Found”: China's nuclear city in the Gobi Desert

#40

Post by cwmoore »

glimshe wrote: post #28
Vincent_Yan404 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly why I wanted to write this story. It is surreal to think that while we worry about parking spots today, a generation of brilliant minds was working under the barrel of a gun (sometimes literally, as you described). The tension between the 'Red' (political) and the 'Expert' (technical) was a defining tragedy of that era.

I don't disagree with that, but I want to point out that this is one facet of hedonic adaptation. People will always complain about of what they don't have. For instance, most inmates in inhumane prisons would love to have the life you describe if they could enjoy some degree of freedom as a result.

“inhumane prisons” is as redundant as “ink pen”
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