Writing node.js applications in C# • Hacker News Board

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#11

Post by ConstantineXVI » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 12:23 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #8

tomkludy wrote: post #5

What exactly is the point here? If you want to write C#, just use ASP.NET and MVC 4. You will certainly save yourself a lot of headaches, and you can still do everything async, etc. From what I can tell, the purpose of Node.js is to reduce the number of technologies that a web dev has to use and understand. You already need to use JavaScript on the client side, so using the same thing on the server side allows code r…

MVC is actually pretty damn clunky. It has a lot of built-ins which are just frustrating (like IPrincipal, ugh). Also there are loads and loads of weird quirks that pop up as soon as you start trying to do anything like returning JSON. MVC was a huge step forward from the old ASP.Net, but it's still making a lot of frankly odd decisions or suddenly bizarre behaviours in the background (e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/q…

FWIW, I've found NancyFx[0] fairly non-clunky as far as .NET goes. It's more of an analogue for Sinatra than Node.js, though.

[0] https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#12

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 12:23 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #8

tomkludy wrote: post #5

What exactly is the point here? If you want to write C#, just use ASP.NET and MVC 4. You will certainly save yourself a lot of headaches, and you can still do everything async, etc. From what I can tell, the purpose of Node.js is to reduce the number of technologies that a web dev has to use and understand. You already need to use JavaScript on the client side, so using the same thing on the server side allows code r…

MVC is actually pretty damn clunky. It has a lot of built-ins which are just frustrating (like IPrincipal, ugh). Also there are loads and loads of weird quirks that pop up as soon as you start trying to do anything like returning JSON. MVC was a huge step forward from the old ASP.Net, but it's still making a lot of frankly odd decisions or suddenly bizarre behaviours in the background (e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/q…

[deleted]

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#13

Post by MatthewPhillips » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 12:25 PM UTC

ConstantineXVI wrote: post #11

mattmanser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MVC is actually pretty damn clunky. It has a lot of built-ins which are just frustrating (like IPrincipal, ugh). Also there are loads and loads of weird quirks that pop up as soon as you start trying to do anything like returning JSON. MVC was a huge step forward from the old ASP.Net, but it's still making a lot of frankly odd decisions or suddenly bizarre behaviours in the background (e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/q…

FWIW, I've found NancyFx[0] fairly non-clunky as far as .NET goes. It's more of an analogue for Sinatra than Node.js, though. [0] https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy

Agreed, if you're forced to use C#, Nancy at least does it sanely (and RESTfully!).

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#14

Post by tomkludy » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 12:31 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #8

tomkludy wrote: post #5

What exactly is the point here? If you want to write C#, just use ASP.NET and MVC 4. You will certainly save yourself a lot of headaches, and you can still do everything async, etc. From what I can tell, the purpose of Node.js is to reduce the number of technologies that a web dev has to use and understand. You already need to use JavaScript on the client side, so using the same thing on the server side allows code r…

MVC is actually pretty damn clunky. It has a lot of built-ins which are just frustrating (like IPrincipal, ugh). Also there are loads and loads of weird quirks that pop up as soon as you start trying to do anything like returning JSON. MVC was a huge step forward from the old ASP.Net, but it's still making a lot of frankly odd decisions or suddenly bizarre behaviours in the background (e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/q…

I personally find those "helpful" things to be truly, well, helpful. For example the input validation, anti-forgery token validation, simple cache control, etc.

Again, not saying you can't do these things in node. The two technologies can easily accomplish the same goal. But if your primary concern is avoiding JS, why would you choose a technology that is built entirely upon it?

Node.cs might make more sense, I agree. I have a feeling the existing ecosystem might bring its own problems with the author's approach, because your C# code may have trouble integrating with those existing libraries, if the underlying generated code does not behave as the Javascript library expects.

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#15

Post by utnick » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 12:33 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #8

tomkludy wrote: post #5

What exactly is the point here? If you want to write C#, just use ASP.NET and MVC 4. You will certainly save yourself a lot of headaches, and you can still do everything async, etc. From what I can tell, the purpose of Node.js is to reduce the number of technologies that a web dev has to use and understand. You already need to use JavaScript on the client side, so using the same thing on the server side allows code r…

MVC is actually pretty damn clunky. It has a lot of built-ins which are just frustrating (like IPrincipal, ugh). Also there are loads and loads of weird quirks that pop up as soon as you start trying to do anything like returning JSON. MVC was a huge step forward from the old ASP.Net, but it's still making a lot of frankly odd decisions or suddenly bizarre behaviours in the background (e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/q…

can you elaborate on the quirks around returning JSON with asp.net MVC? its a pretty common usecase.

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#16

Post by Jare » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 12:34 PM UTC

impostervt wrote: post #2

When I read about Node.js, the first selling point people mention is how you can reuse code on the client and server sides. For me, the main selling point is that it's Javascript. When I see new variants of js, developed to "fix" js, it makes me want to cry.

Currently, reusing code on client and server is far from the first selling point. Companies like Meteor and Groupon are pushing in that direction quite heavily, but for mere mortals it's still limited to reusing a few core libraries like underscore, async or templating.

Reusing experience and knowledge, and reducing the cost of context switching, those are very clear and positive advantages.

On the topic of sharing code, these should be interesting: the 'pipe dream' ( http://keithnorm.com/spainjs-pipedream/ ) and the 'holy grail' ( http://thatconf.chrisjpowers.com/ ).

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#17

Post by cincinnatus » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 12:52 PM UTC

There is already a node.js analogue that runs on .net and hosts .net https://github.com/jacksonh/manos

Hasn't been updated in a long time. Not sure why it isn't getting any love, maybe something better came along. Seems to me it should be more performant on equal hardware.

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#18

Post by gizzlon » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 1:00 PM UTC

I can't believe Javascrip is really that awful that anyone would rather go through all this trouble, rather than just write JS..

Maybe it has more to do with people being to reliant on IDE's, which he, kind of, admits to anyway..

I can't believe that any IDE is that great that anyone would rather go through all this trouble, rather than just use something else..

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#19

Post by mattmanser » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 1:21 PM UTC

utnick wrote: post #15

mattmanser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MVC is actually pretty damn clunky. It has a lot of built-ins which are just frustrating (like IPrincipal, ugh). Also there are loads and loads of weird quirks that pop up as soon as you start trying to do anything like returning JSON. MVC was a huge step forward from the old ASP.Net, but it's still making a lot of frankly odd decisions or suddenly bizarre behaviours in the background (e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/q…

can you elaborate on the quirks around returning JSON with asp.net MVC? its a pretty common usecase.

There's a load of little things that are gotchas, but an example that pops into my head is that it wasn't compatible with default jQuery for example. If you didn't ask specifically for a content-type of application/json, which jQuery didn't by default, it would throw a hissy fit. It meant mucking around with the ajax object meaning you couldn't use certain jQuery shortcut methods. Regardless of what you 'told' MVC to do.

So there's a bunch of things it's doing you're not even aware that it is nor have asked it to do.

Think that was MVC 3? I've been using it since the first version, it's much better than it started (the original JSON support was awful), but you still every now and then get a WTF moment.

For example I still really have no idea the 'right' way to return 404 or 500 error pages. I swear they change their mind every release.

Re: Writing node.js applications in C#

#20

Post by louthy » Thu, Oct 11, 2012, 1:28 PM UTC

It strikes me that there's a much simpler solution, and that is to use TypeScript. It has all the VS intellisense that's required and none of the boilerplate in the OP's solution.

http://www.typescriptlang.org