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My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

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Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#181

Post by f1shy »

Nextgrid wrote: post #109
kkjjjjw wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it should be trivial for them to provide the source code.

It's trivial in terms that it will cost them nothing, because it's very likely there are no changes to the kernel, or nothing of value nor commercially-sensitive anyway. It's not trivial in terms of big company bureaucracy - this request will have to go through so many levels of red tape that they (correctly) decided not complying to random people's requests is more profitable. I'm sure if you actually sue them then…

> because it's very likely there are no changes to the kernel

That is a gratuitous assumption. My experience is, as long as there is the smallest custom hardware, you will have to make some tweaks here and there.

> they're not asking for anything of value or using the GPL to advance software freedom by freeing up some valuable code, they're just wasting both theirs and others' time asking for something they can already download directly.

I'm sorry that the company which is making lots of money by using a copyrighted SW has to "waste" 200 dollars in some bureaucracy, printing and postage. But is the license of the SW they are using, and should abide by it.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#182

Post by reedciccio »

austhrow743 wrote: post #50
abigail95 wrote: post #25

I get mad triggered by software license violation discussions. Please for the love of all that the FSF thinks is holy - just file a damn lawsuit if you are telling me they are violating the law. State your claim and have a court sort it out. It costs hundreds of dollars. For a medical device? Seems like a good deal.

The OP almost certainly isn’t a copyright holder for the Linux kernel. They probably would have said if they were.

The theory is being tested that you don't need to be a copyright holder to file a lawsuit https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#183

Post by sznio »

ivell wrote: post #160
Joker_vD wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same sort of reason that retailers can't be held to incorrectly published prices (in the UK at least, a displayed price is an “invitation to tender”, not a contract or other promise) The hell? Over here, the price tags are a sort of public contract, to which the seller pre-commits. The seller forgot to change the tags? That's not the buyer's problem.

Since money has not exchanged hands, you could always decide not to buy at the counter. So atleast in the countries I have been, it is not legally binding.

it's still bait-and-switch

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#184

Post by RobotToaster »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #112
jacquesm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people hacking on insulin pumps and they are lightyears ahead of commerce. If you want a very interesting rabbit hole to dive into try 'artificial pancreas hacking' as google feed. One interesting link: https://www.drugtopics.com/view/hacking-diabetes-the-diy-bio... I would trust the people that hack on these systems to be even more motivated than the manufacturers to make sure they don't fuck up,…

> it's the equivalent of flying a plane you built yourself A great analogy because people die that way. I personally would never push code to another person’s insulin pump (or advertise code as being used for an insulin pump) because I couldn’t live with the guilt if my bug got someone else killed.

I'm not aware of any deaths attributed to open source artificial pancreas systems. Meanwhile there have been multiple attributed to closed source glucose monitors.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#185

Post by RobotToaster »

schmuckonwheels wrote: post #74
JoshTriplett wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an open legal question, which the Conservancy v Vizio case will hopefully change; in that case, Conservancy is arguing that consumers have the right to enforce the GPL in order to receive source code.

This got buried on HN a few days ago which is a shame: https://social.kernel.org/notice/B1aR6QFuzksLVSyBZQ Linus rants that the SFC is wrong and argues that the GPLv2 which the kernel is licensed under does NOT force you to open your hardware. The spirit of the GPLv2 was about contributing software improvements back to the community. Which brings us to the question: what is this guy going to do with (presumably) the…

> Linus rants

That happens every Tuesday, hardly newsworthy.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#186

Post by TylerE »

mindslight wrote: post #127
dullcrisp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So flying in a plane you built yourself is in fact safer than flying commercial because the motivations line up. Got it.

Flying in a plane you built yourself is likely safer than flying in the same model of plane built by a company that assembled it for you using lowest-bid labor while making you sign a twenty page lawyer barf disclaiming liability.

We have decades of data saying that isn’t true. Homebuilt aircraft have much worse accident rates than factory built aircraft.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#187

Post by RichardLake »

RHSeeger wrote: post #99
schmuckonwheels wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recipient of that object code is the medical device supplier, not the end-user. It's subsequently transferred to you after presenting a prescription, without any accompanying offer of source code. In other words, assume you are the second owner in all cases when it comes to certified medical equipment. AFAIK if you find an Android phone in the trash, you are not entitled to source either since you never received…

> In other words, assume you are the second owner in all cases when it comes to certified medical equipment. By that logic, _any_ company can effectively ignore the GPL constraints by just selling it to a reseller, first; one that they have a contract with to _not_ offer the source code when they re-sell it. It is my understanding that, if I use GPL in my code, and I distribute it to someone that then re-distributes…

Would you disagree with this logic? You distribute GPL code to me on a dvd. I give that dvd to someone else. I have not made a copy of the source code, so copyright does not come into this. If instead I copied the dvd and emailed the iso to someone else I would be distributing and copyright comes into it.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#189

Post by f1shy »

tstrimple wrote: post #179
f1shy wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people think constantly something made by some random company is automatically better than something made "DIY". I totally understand, that because of liability and some more availability of resources, you would expect a company product to be "safe". BUT: if it is your butt that is going to be in the line, then I bet you: you will be much more careful that a random engineer in some random company. About the re…

I thought I explained it, but I'll break it down into smaller words. Medical software doesn't just have to solve one particular users's problems. It has to be generalized to the majority of folk seeking treatment for a particular problem. If one particular CPAP user is able to tweak their settings to work better for their particular lifestyle, it is not generalizeable to every CPAP user. A corporation offering a gene…

I have explained it already in other comments, but let me break it down for you again:

The “liability”, “scrutiny”, “regulation” only generate “cover your ass” measures, bureaucracy, red tape, costs, and hardly any real measure to increase quality or safety. My work is in such a critical mission systems company, and they don’t give a shit about safety, just are interested in coming out clean or not waste too much money in settlement with dead people relatives.

> but good luck convincing a court that your family deserves restitution for you installing a random script you found on the internet into your insulin pump.

And good luck fighting a Pharma corporation for whatever did wrong. BTW, you bring the CPAP topic. Maybe you can read this at leisure [1] in this case, because it was a huge scandal, they pay. But 90% of the time, they don’t. And even if this case, with legal cost deducted, and divided by all people, is not a real compensation (spoiler alert: it never ever is!).

Please note in this case they DID KNOW about the issue, and did nothing. So much for liability and scrutiny.

[1] https://www.drugwatch.com/philips-cpap/lawsuits/

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#190

Post by wizzwizz4 »

schmuckonwheels wrote: post #74
JoshTriplett wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an open legal question, which the Conservancy v Vizio case will hopefully change; in that case, Conservancy is arguing that consumers have the right to enforce the GPL in order to receive source code.

This got buried on HN a few days ago which is a shame: https://social.kernel.org/notice/B1aR6QFuzksLVSyBZQ Linus rants that the SFC is wrong and argues that the GPLv2 which the kernel is licensed under does NOT force you to open your hardware. The spirit of the GPLv2 was about contributing software improvements back to the community. Which brings us to the question: what is this guy going to do with (presumably) the…

> Try and run custom software on his medical device which can likely kill him? More than likely.

It's not like the OEM software also won't kill you: https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2025/dec/23/seven-abbott-free...

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