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My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

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Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#11

Post by jstanley »

teddyh wrote: post #6

> I then decided to contact Insulet to get the kernel source code for it, being GPLv2 licensed, they're obligated to provide it. This is technically not true. It is an oversimplification of the common case, but what actually normally should happen is that: 1. The GPL requires the company to send the user a written offer of source code. 2. The user uses this offer to request the source code from the company. 3. If the…

Are you saying that in the general case if you send someone a written offer for something and then don't honour it, you are in breach of contract?

That doesn't sound right to me.

A written offer is not the same thing as a contract.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#12

Post by Aurornis »

whatshisface wrote: post #7
anigbrowl wrote: post #5

As always, the solution is to contact their legal department, preferably via a lawyer. Engineers and support staff are not going to risk their jobs making legal decisions about giving away company property. The FSF could help a lot here by publishing demand letter templates outlining the statutory and precedential basis for license enforcement and recovery of damages.

It is not company property.

Support staff or even engineers are not in a position to be making that call. It’s a legal department decision, even if it seems obvious to you.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#13

Post by duban »

Group_B wrote: post #8

Oh well. The whole thing has already been reverse engineered. Look up Loop or Trio or OpenAPS. Diabetic companies like Insulet have been very lax when it’s come to the hacking of their devices. This isn’t really that big a deal. What we need right now is help REing the Omnipod 5

I’m aware of a few people working on REing the Omnipod 5. The furthest issue that I have seen is that when a PDM/Omnipod 5 app signs into your insulet id, it gets a private key from the API which is stored in the keychain (and uses SSL pinning to prevent MiTM retrieval of the private key). When pairing with the pod they exchange public keys and then a derived key from the devices private key+pods public keys, but haven’t been able to get a copy of a private key yet to make further progress.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#14

Post by Tomte »

LukeShu wrote: post #9
mijoharas wrote: post #4

Out of interest is there a process to petition the FSF to take up something like this? How do they triage and decide what to pursue?

TL;DR: Not the FSF, but SFC; email compliance@sfconservancy.org The dominant legal theory is that the GPL can only be enforced by the party holding the copyright. SFC's lawsuit against Vizio is strategically trying to establish precedent changing that; establishing that end-users are "third party beneficiaries" under the GPL, so others can enforce the GPL; but for now the copyright holder is the only one who can enfo…

> Bradley Kühn's

I saw that spelling for the first time last week, I think.

Did he change his name? Has he always been Kühn, but went with Kuhn, because Umlaute are hard for Americans?

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#15

Post by anigbrowl »

whatshisface wrote: post #7
anigbrowl wrote: post #5

As always, the solution is to contact their legal department, preferably via a lawyer. Engineers and support staff are not going to risk their jobs making legal decisions about giving away company property. The FSF could help a lot here by publishing demand letter templates outlining the statutory and precedential basis for license enforcement and recovery of damages.

It is not company property.

But it's the company's legal department which would evaluate that claim. Because it's a legal claim. Licenses aren't magic spells, they're social agreements and non-executive employees don't want to get in trouble for making executive decisions.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#16

Post by dspillett »

jstanley wrote: post #11
teddyh wrote: post #6

> I then decided to contact Insulet to get the kernel source code for it, being GPLv2 licensed, they're obligated to provide it. This is technically not true. It is an oversimplification of the common case, but what actually normally should happen is that: 1. The GPL requires the company to send the user a written offer of source code. 2. The user uses this offer to request the source code from the company. 3. If the…

Are you saying that in the general case if you send someone a written offer for something and then don't honour it, you are in breach of contract? That doesn't sound right to me. A written offer is not the same thing as a contract.

The written offer is part of the licence, as is the need to respond to that offer with the source code offered. It is all part of the same agreement.

A written offer on its own would not normally be directly enforceable in many (most?) jurisdictions, for the same sort of reason that retailers can't be held to incorrectly published prices (in the UK at least, a displayed price is an “invitation to tender”, not a contract or other promise) except where other laws/regulations (anti bait&switch rules for instance), or the desire to avoid fighting in the court of public opinion, come into effect.

But in this instance, the written offer and the response to that offer are part of the wider licence that has been agreed to.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#17

Post by teddyh »

jstanley wrote: post #11
teddyh wrote: post #6

> I then decided to contact Insulet to get the kernel source code for it, being GPLv2 licensed, they're obligated to provide it. This is technically not true. It is an oversimplification of the common case, but what actually normally should happen is that: 1. The GPL requires the company to send the user a written offer of source code. 2. The user uses this offer to request the source code from the company. 3. If the…

Are you saying that in the general case if you send someone a written offer for something and then don't honour it, you are in breach of contract? That doesn't sound right to me. A written offer is not the same thing as a contract.

Maybe it’s not technically “breach of contract”, and an offer might or might not be a contract. But if you don’t honor an offer you made, you must surely be guilty of something. Otherwise, all offers would be meaningless and worth nothing.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#18

Post by teddyh »

dspillett wrote: post #16
jstanley wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that in the general case if you send someone a written offer for something and then don't honour it, you are in breach of contract? That doesn't sound right to me. A written offer is not the same thing as a contract.

The written offer is part of the licence, as is the need to respond to that offer with the source code offered. It is all part of the same agreement. A written offer on its own would not normally be directly enforceable in many (most?) jurisdictions, for the same sort of reason that retailers can't be held to incorrectly published prices (in the UK at least, a displayed price is an “invitation to tender”, not a contr…

I don’t think so; I can’t recall any support for such a connection between the written offer and the GPL itself written into the GPL license text.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#19

Post by jacquesm »

Let me guess. Omnipod. They've had some pretty bad recalls too. Never in a lifetime would I trust my well-being to their p.o.s. hardware / software combo. Apologies that person in this thread that worked there, but I hope you are working for a better company now.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#20

Post by ralph84 »

Tomte wrote: post #14
LukeShu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL;DR: Not the FSF, but SFC; email compliance@sfconservancy.org The dominant legal theory is that the GPL can only be enforced by the party holding the copyright. SFC's lawsuit against Vizio is strategically trying to establish precedent changing that; establishing that end-users are "third party beneficiaries" under the GPL, so others can enforce the GPL; but for now the copyright holder is the only one who can enfo…

> Bradley Kühn's I saw that spelling for the first time last week, I think. Did he change his name? Has he always been Kühn, but went with Kuhn, because Umlaute are hard for Americans?

He changed his name.

https://fedi.copyleft.org/@bkuhn/115461658201124515

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