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Ask HN: How do I bridge the gap between PhD and SWE experiences?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I bridge the gap between PhD and SWE experiences?

#21

Post by dahart »

Depends on what aspects of your scientific training you want to re-engage with. Do you want to be writing & publishing, giving talks, doing experiments, or building predictive statistical models? And what kind of software do you want to continue writing? Application development? More full-stack, with both backend and frontend? It is indeed hard to imagine places where you can find a strong mix of both.

If you want to mix earth sciences with development, you could look for positions on the Google Earth Engine team, or check out weather companies that do R&D like Purple Air. I imagine there’s plenty of software work mixed with earth sciences in the oil, gas, and mining industries; aviation & ocean shipping; hydroelectric, solar, and wind power maybe.

Being an earth sciences researcher is highly likely to involve writing software, whereas the average SWE role is not likely to need research, so my instinct would be to say just look research roles. Do most of today’s earth sciences researchers not spend a lot of their time at least writing statistical software in Python or R? My brother’s an anthropologist, and over the last decade his job has become more and more writing software to process datasets and do statistics.

If you’re just looking for a scientific mindset and a role that does experimentation, many companies (especially growing startups) have data science departments that, at a minimum, drive A-B testing experiments. Occasionally you can find applied research positions that are listed as just SWE roles, but those might be hard to find - I’d start by asking academic departments for leads.

Re: Ask HN: How do I bridge the gap between PhD and SWE experiences?

#22

Post by jp57 »

“Bridging the gap between PhD and SWE” would be a good subtitle for my career.

I started out writing software for scientists, psychologists, first at a university, then a small company. After eight years of that I went to grad school and got a PhD in CS (ML/AI), and did a postdoc, before going into industry, and eventually landed a role in what was then called “data mining”, later “data science”, then “machine learning engineering”. In the beginning when the team was small, we were all generalists, doing both the science work and the engineering. As we grew, specialized roles developed, but I was able to chart a course somewhere between a SWE and a scientist, doing a lot of knowledge work, experiments, measurement, and presentation, but also building common tools that the rest of the team can use.

I’ve been out of the job market for 15 years now, but I think any company that does science and builds software would value your skillset. In fact, when I was shifting from academia to industry, I started out determined to be a “scientist”. After all, what was my PhD for, anyway? But my SWE chops were pretty evident on my resume, and I had a hard time getting traction. Then I got brought in for an interview at a company that had a team of scientists and a team of engineers and they brought me in for a split interview with both teams. It was clear by the end that they wanted me as an engineer, but I was insistent on wanting to be a scientist. They didn’t offer me a job, and I was disappointed. The disappointment was educational for me, and I rewrote my resume to put more emphasis on my SWE skills, and that made it easier to find a role that fit me.

Re: Ask HN: How do I bridge the gap between PhD and SWE experiences?

#23

Post by ptero »

I would use your software skills to get in the door as a software engineer, then weasel into a sciencey position. That is:

1. Find a company that has non-software jobs that you like. Look at what companies advertise on their web sites; go to a few conferences (or watch talks) to see if some talks strike you with "ah, I can and want to do this" vibe; reach out to folks you went to grad school with, etc.

2. Apply and join as a software engineer. Don't try to sit on both chairs (software and science) during the application. You can apply to a science role, but this is likely much harder after 8 years of software focus.

3. Once in, chat with folks working on what you want to work on. Talk to folks you saw give talks. Go to internal presentations, post cool plots in slack, etc. In most companies it is pretty easy to move within roles. Plus, HR is no longer in the filtering pipeline and is not tossing resumes of anyone they think does not have the chops for the position.

Good luck!

As a personal data point -- I decided, late in my math PhD, to switch from academia to the industry after completion. A few times I switched jobs I went in as a software engineer, but within a few months moved to working on things I wanted to do beyond software (algorithms for tracking, perception, signal processing, sensor fusion, etc.).

Re: Ask HN: How do I bridge the gap between PhD and SWE experiences?

#24

Post by boogieknite »

this is quite close to my boss's experience. he was an ecology major and phd in geography. i think you probably have about twice the software experience he had before merging the two

his application is quite simple and repeatable: optimizing field measurements through apps. or more simply, really good forms and reports. we focus on forestry but have been able to repeatedly repackage and adjust our software for clients who need to go someplace, fill out a form, and then report on that later and/or submit it to some unique system (etl stuff)

a phd proves you mastered a language and knowledge of process applicable to communicating with subject matter experts. youre certified in the scientific method. even when my boss doesnt have direct experience in a specific field, he can make an analogy to other client or phd work. clients are confident you can meet with members across their team to plan, implement, and test software to optimize their workflow without much hand holding

another thing: he does a lot of talks. after a few talks now he's asked all the time and one of ESRI's first calls for an alternate at conferences. a lot of this is the phd title. if you dont loathe public speaking too much than this can open doors to conversations with clients, professional partners, or institutions developing new tech

Re: Ask HN: How do I bridge the gap between PhD and SWE experiences?

#27

Post by mathgeek »

grayxu wrote: post #26

The reason is that you are not a Computer Science PhD. But soft skills (such as storytelling, sense of ownership, etc.) can still be passed down

It's a bit ironic that the "soft" skills are becoming the hard skills nowadays. A lot of the AI buzz these days is around PM's, Data Scientists, etc. who now have the tools to code "well enough" and are attractive due to their people skills and/or other skillsets.

Not to say this is an objective analysis, just observing the subjective trends.

Re: Ask HN: How do I bridge the gap between PhD and SWE experiences?

#29

Post by hmokiguess »

Usually jobs in established corporations have a specific goal, task, or focus that maps directly to the company's bottom-line and ROI. Research, on the other hand, requires funding and is more like an investment strategy for a company. If you want to create your job, and bridge that gap, then try and marry the two. How could the fruits of your work improve a company's bottom line?

My experience working and hiring PhDs in the past has been one that they sometimes are used to this being defined for them and/or used to applying to grants/funds in established academic environments but rarely do they think of creating the path themselves (except for some outliers). The fact that you are already thinking of that puts you in that category.

Lastly, when working at the edge of something and creating your job, be ready for this mantra: https://37signals.com/13

Re: Ask HN: How do I bridge the gap between PhD and SWE experiences?

#30

Post by MrDarcy »

As a hiring manager, if someone shared a profile of a person with a PHD in earth sciences and 8 years of “full stack” experience I’d immediately assume they were a generalist with surface level familiarity and no mastery or depth in any one area.

I’d then look over the profile trying to disprove my assumption. Lacking a very strong signal in mastery of something, I’d pass on the profile.

Only at small scales are full stack engineers valuable. Their value is not in the quality of their output but in their ability to deliver make shift with that avoids having to pay for specialist who can deliver quality.

Assuming there is product market fit then generalists are replaced by specialists. This is where the true value aligns in terms of high quality output being compensated proportional to value created.

Given all this my advice is to pick two complementary areas, specialize in those areas and develop deep mastery. Keep your broad general skills. Then market yourself as the T or H shaped engineer that’s most valuable.

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