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Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

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Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#11

Post by sowbug »

amelius wrote: post #7
ramraj07 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancer isn't caused by proteins in the way you might think. Its definitely not infectious at the protein level. You could ask if this disruption spreads out cancer cells themselves and that would be fair to ask. But then the cancer cells were already in your body and were likely trying to migrate to other sites anyway.

Ok, but this might stimulate migration further.

The success of surgery to remove solid tumors usually hinges on whether there are "clean margins," meaning they were able to remove all the bad tissue and a little good surrounding tissue just to be sure. It's likely that the same principle applies using this new procedure: if you blast the whole thing and trust the body to clean up the mess, hopefully there won't be anything left to worry about.

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#12

Post by agumonkey »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #10

What are the chances that breaking up a tumor this way seeds cancer elsewhere in the body? 2024 meta analysis of seeding I didn't see ultrasound in there: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39605885/ Here is a study on AEs specifically from this type of ultrasound: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... Quote: "Cavitation detaches cancer cells/emboli from the primary site and thereby releases th…

It would not be the first therapy that may promote spread while curing the primary site. Hopefully there are measures to assess the cost / benefits.

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#14

Post by jtbaker »

moralestapia wrote: post #9
jtbaker wrote: post #8

As someone who was recently diagnosed and treated for Uveal Melanoma (get your annual eye exam and retinal scans!), and occasionally struggling with some intrusive thoughts about the potential for liver mets, reading about this treatment brought me so much joy. Bless Zhen Xu!

Hey, I'm curious, did you have symptoms or did you just find it by chance?

no symptoms. first identified the lesion a few years back and it hadn't changed over a few subsequent appointments. exam this year, it had grown a small amount 5mmx5mm to 6mmx8mm - still considered small, but the change was enough for the Drs to recommend treatment. I have been treated by Dr. Dan Gombos[1] at MD Anderson and received excellent care.

[1] https://faculty.mdanderson.org/profiles/dan_gombos.html

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#15

Post by CGMthrowaway »

agumonkey wrote: post #12
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #10

What are the chances that breaking up a tumor this way seeds cancer elsewhere in the body? 2024 meta analysis of seeding I didn't see ultrasound in there: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39605885/ Here is a study on AEs specifically from this type of ultrasound: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... Quote: "Cavitation detaches cancer cells/emboli from the primary site and thereby releases th…

It would not be the first therapy that may promote spread while curing the primary site. Hopefully there are measures to assess the cost / benefits.

For sure. Goes without saying in any cancer treatment that cost/benefit is a prime consideration. Still, that will not stop me from asking the question. You can't do that analysis without the answers after all.

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#16

Post by cogman10 »

Due to some family stuff, this is something I've been investigating. My oncologist has said "this will probably be standard care in a few years". The results and studies around this have been excellent.

What this does better than pretty much anything else is it isolates the destruction of cells to just the target. The liver is a VERY "bleedy" organ. It has a ton of blood that flows through it which makes surgery extra hard. In fact, the not this surgery that's next best for our circumstances laparoscopic through the arteries to drop a radioactive pellet in the center of the cancer.

The non-invasive nature of this is going to be very good for the future of cancer treatment. Minimizing scaring and damage to tissue is the number 1 factor to better results.

The only reason my local oncologist does not have this machine is they are still pretty pricey.

When I first learned about this, I thought it was pseudo-science BS. It's crazy what can be done with just sound.

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#17

Post by YossarianFrPrez »

Per the article, this seems even better than the headline would suggest:

> Histotripsy generally seems to stimulate an immune response, helping the body attack cancer cells that weren’t targeted directly by ultrasound. The mechanical destruction of tumors likely leaves behind recognizable traces of cancer proteins that help the immune system learn to identify and destroy similar cells elsewhere in the body, explains Wood. Researchers are now exploring ways to pair histotripsy with immunotherapy to amplify that effect.

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#18

Post by jjtheblunt »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #10

What are the chances that breaking up a tumor this way seeds cancer elsewhere in the body? 2024 meta analysis of seeding I didn't see ultrasound in there: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39605885/ Here is a study on AEs specifically from this type of ultrasound: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... Quote: "Cavitation detaches cancer cells/emboli from the primary site and thereby releases th…

> What are the chances that breaking up a tumor this way seeds cancer elsewhere in the body?

that's discussed in the article

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#19

Post by chaboud »

I had the opportunity to meet with folks from Histosonics at a Canopy Cancer Collective (pancreas cancer focused group - https://canopycancer.org/) annual meeting a couple of years ago. They had shown very promising results (and approval) with liver cancer, and the applicability to any soft-tissue openly-addressable masses (e.g., not brains in skulls, not lungs full of air) seemed very likely, based on the physics. (Note: I'm a consumer electronics and ML engineer, not a medical devices engineer).

I'm excited to see this option become more broadly available. The ability to precisely target and illicit an inflammatory response is impressive, and Whipples are no joke.

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