The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
1–10 of 139 posts
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#2One of the few things I have used in programming and technology consistently for over 25 years is SQL. Almost no time spent learning how to organize and query data has been a waste in my career.
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#3The CM DB group YT channel is good place to learn about the basics and advanced topics: https://www.youtube.com/@CMUDatabaseGroup
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#4The mere existence of Pandas makes me extremely grateful for SQL, because my job would be absolute hell if I had to use pandas or a similar syntax. It’s hard to overemphasize just how perfect SQL is for the job that it does.
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#5I've loved and used Django ORM and SQLAlchemy for many years. It got me a long way in my career. But at this point I've sworn-off using query-builders and ORMs. I just write real, hand-crafted SQL now. These "any db" abstractions just make for the worst query patterns. They're easy and map nicely to your application language, but they're really terrible unless you want to put in the effort to meta-program SQL using whatever constructs the builder library offers you. CTEs? Windows? Correlated subqueries? It's a lot. And they're always lazy, so you never really know when the N+1s are going to happen.
Just write SQL. I figured this out when I realized that my application was written in Rust, but really it was a Postgres application. I use PG-specific features extensively. My data, and database, are the core of everything that my application does, or will ever do. Why am I caring about some convenient abstractions to make it easier to work with in Rust, or Python, or whatever?
Nah. Just write the good SQL for your database.
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#6I've loved and used Django ORM and SQLAlchemy for many years. It got me a long way in my career. But at this point I've sworn-off using query-builders and ORMs. I just write real, hand-crafted SQL now. These "any db" abstractions just make for the worst query patterns. They're easy and map nicely to your application language, but they're really terrible unless you want to put in the effort to meta-program SQL using w…
The cargo-cult shibboleth of "never put business logic in your database" certainly didn't help, since a lot of developers just turned that into "never use stored procedures or views, your database is a dumb store with indexes."
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#7SQL has been the main skill I have relied upon my entire career. Yes, I have worked with Pandas and other data libraries; my take away from working with Pandas is it is a pretty language but obfuscates the relational database with a non-relational lanuguage. Relational databases require a relational language which is what SQL is.
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#8Somewhat tangential to the article, but why is SQL considered a programming language?
I understand that's the convention according to the IEEE and Wikipedia [1], but the name itself - Structured Query Language - reveals that its purpose is limited by design. It's a computer language [2] for sure, but why programming?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#9I am quite found of PL/SQL, and stored procedures, no need to waste network bandwith with what can be done on the database.
Re: The Rise of SQL:the second programming language everyone needs to know
#10Somewhat tangential to the article, but why is SQL considered a programming language ? I understand that's the convention according to the IEEE and Wikipedia [1], but the name itself - Structured Query Language - reveals that its purpose is limited by design. It's a computer language [2] for sure, but why programming ? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C…
Because stored procedures do exist, and there isn't a single production quality RDMS that doesn't go beyond DDL and DML, adding structured programming extensions.
Also, even within the standard itself, it allows for declarative programming.