Link doesn't seem to have a link to the text; I'd love to read it.
It’s available for purchase from multiple sellers, from bookshop.org to Amazon.
Isengard in Oxford
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Re: Isengard in Oxford
#12Have to hand it to the author of that article. It is really nicely written for what it is and doesn’t get in its own way. Learned lots of new things. Would be intrigued to hear what exactly happened to Christopher Tolkien and being silenced/pushed aside.
Re: Isengard in Oxford
#13Have to hand it to the author of that article. It is really nicely written for what it is and doesn’t get in its own way. Learned lots of new things. Would be intrigued to hear what exactly happened to Christopher Tolkien and being silenced/pushed aside.
Well Christopher Tolkien was 'silenced' by the fact of his dying at the age of 95.
The article in my opinion unnecessarily links JRR Tolkien's views on the monstrosity of cars with the much later conspiracy theory that car-free zones are an attempt by the UN to limit personal freedoms. TFA does itself make clear that there wasn't a connection but if it was me I wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place, when there is so much more interesting to say about Tolkien's own views on modernism.
Re: Isengard in Oxford
#14Tolkien's hatred of automobiles and industrialization permeates all his work, but I'd never read about his specific activism against Oxford's road-building schemes.
The irony is that Oxford now has one of the most restrictive traffic policies in the UK (congestion charging, traffic filters) and it's working quite well. Buses are faster, footfall is up, and the city center is more pleasant.
Cars in dense historic city centers really don't make sense. They take up enormous space for parking, create noise and pollution, and are slower than walking or cycling for most trips within city limits.
Would be interesting to see what Tolkien would think of modern urbanism movements. Feels very aligned with his values.
Re: Isengard in Oxford
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
well he probably had a problem with cars around the university. Ive lived there and the traffic with cars is basically horrendous, for a small university town ( and Ive lived in Birmingham and London very crowded places). Finally after a century they have made big changes to reduce traffic. Its such a problem that if you investigate cycling deaths, the biggest hotspot is literally a roundabout in the center of Oxford…
What they were supposed to do, stop people from moving in ? It's generally hard for any existing city (especially if it is older one with narrow streets) to transform communication, from cost to having to displace citizens in worst case.
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Re: Isengard in Oxford
#16Tolkien's hatred of automobiles and industrialization permeates all his work, but I'd never read about his specific activism against Oxford's road-building schemes. The irony is that Oxford now has one of the most restrictive traffic policies in the UK (congestion charging, traffic filters) and it's working quite well. Buses are faster, footfall is up, and the city center is more pleasant. Cars in dense historic city…
> Would be interesting to see what Tolkien would think of modern urbanism movements. Feels very aligned with his values.
Still much too dense.
There was a movement, broadly contemporary with Tolkien, that somewhat reflect his views on this topic. The push at end of the late 19th century in the UK to create "garden cities". They were the first modern planned cities. Supposed to be communities of several tens of thousands, fully walkable, with industry and large ugly infrastructure hidden out of sight behind greenbelts.
They wouldn't really be built in that manner until after World War II and by then were much more car-centric.
I anticipate some skepticism on Tolkien's part about the basically progressive nature of the whole scheme. I think Tolkien was skeptical about the basic concept of social progress. His whole generation was. The War sort of ruined any hope of progress. He hated industrialization for a much deeper reason than just the automobile. The influence of the war on his anti-industrial and social views is hard to overstate:
> Here nothing lived, not even the leprous growths that feed on rottenness. The gasping pools were choked with ash and crawling muds, sickly white and grey, as if the mountains had vomited the filth of their entrails upon the lands about,
That is surely from his memory, lifted directly from the Western Front.
Re: Isengard in Oxford
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet he owned a motor car, and enjoyed fast driving. Humans are complex.
well he probably had a problem with cars around the university. Ive lived there and the traffic with cars is basically horrendous, for a small university town ( and Ive lived in Birmingham and London very crowded places). Finally after a century they have made big changes to reduce traffic. Its such a problem that if you investigate cycling deaths, the biggest hotspot is literally a roundabout in the center of Oxford…
I know the very roundabout you mean without having to look it up, I used to cycle in Oxford very often and while I’m sure there’s a tendency on the internet to underrate locals’ stories as hyperbolic, it really can’t be stressed enough how hazardous this particular feature of civil engineering is.
Re: Isengard in Oxford
#18If we took all of the recorded works of this man who hated the automobile, train an LLM from them, and ask it what it thought of AI, the result would be obscene twice. Once for the project itself and once for the sentiments it would express. If it chose a metaphor from middle earth it would probably be a palantír , and would not appreciate the joke of having become one.
And yet he owned a motor car, and enjoyed fast driving. Humans are complex.
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Re: Isengard in Oxford
#19Have to hand it to the author of that article. It is really nicely written for what it is and doesn’t get in its own way. Learned lots of new things. Would be intrigued to hear what exactly happened to Christopher Tolkien and being silenced/pushed aside.
> Would be intrigued to hear what exactly happened to Christopher Tolkien and being silenced/pushed aside.
What are you referring to? The article says Christopher died two years after releasing the last book.
Re: Isengard in Oxford
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
well he probably had a problem with cars around the university. Ive lived there and the traffic with cars is basically horrendous, for a small university town ( and Ive lived in Birmingham and London very crowded places). Finally after a century they have made big changes to reduce traffic. Its such a problem that if you investigate cycling deaths, the biggest hotspot is literally a roundabout in the center of Oxford…
What they were supposed to do, stop people from moving in ? It's generally hard for any existing city (especially if it is older one with narrow streets) to transform communication, from cost to having to displace citizens in worst case.
i dont know brother maybe something like implement the road traffic rules they are doing now, which are clearly feasible, but like 100 years ago?
No wait yeah lets do what you thought would be the only solution, stop people moving into the city, nice one mate.