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What Pandora Pays Top Artists

blog.pandora.com

21–30 of 88 posts

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#21
post #19
post #13

This is probably going to end up being a controversial opinion, but I just don't think music is worth that much anymore (fiscally speaking). Sure, there was a time when being popular meant signing a contract-- it was the only way to distribute your music on a large scale. Radio and physical copies were the only way to hear music, period. But these days with the internet and the right software practically anyone can c…

Give me all of the top music software in the world and I won't be able to create anything worth listening to. Your statement is kind of like saying since word processing software and electronic distribution are widely available, books really aren't worth the price tag. It's the creativity and hard work that goes into books and music that makes it worth the price--not the cost of the distribution medium.

That's true, but at the same time there's more absolutely fantastic music in the world than I will ever be able to able to listen to in my lifespan. While you or I might not be able to produce it, there are probably thousands if not millions of artists out there who produce worthwhile music.

I'm not saying they're overpaid, but it is an interesting economic observation that the supply side of the market might be oversaturated relative to the demand.

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#22
post #20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me all of the top music software in the world and I won't be able to create anything worth listening to. Your statement is kind of like saying since word processing software and electronic distribution are widely available, books really aren't worth the price tag. It's the creativity and hard work that goes into books and music that makes it worth the price--not the cost of the distribution medium.

There's no empirical way to measure the amount of effort or creativity that goes into something. It just seems to me like 20 dollars for a movie is more justifiable than 15 on an album, based on the _apparent_ amount of work that went towards their creation (not to mention the actual cost). In the end, I could probably make an album myself, but I couldn't create an entire movie. Why are they priced so similarly?

It's ultimately the end quality and impact of the product that make it worth (or not worth) the price.

An album is more feasible to make on one's own, but it's also much more likely to be listened to many more times. I've heard my favorite albums far more than I've watched my favorite movies. But at the same time I realize how much it costs to produce a major motion picture, so I'm okay with paying ten bucks to sit in a theater for two hours. They provide me different kinds of value.

That quality/impact has always been what gave creative works value—the scarcity of physical distribution only enforced that value, it didn't create it. A physical copy of an album nobody liked couldn't be sold for $15, even though it was no more sharable than a physical copy of an album everybody liked. The problem facing creative works with the internet is finding a way to make money off of producing high quality works when you can no longer rely on physical scarcity. But that doesn't mean there is no value there anymore: genius and talent are still scarce.

Moving to models built on services like Pandora and Spotify could turn out to be a good thing if it shifts rewards in favor of things with lasting quality, not just a "make two good hits and ten crappy songs to push a bunch of one-time album sales." But I think they're going to have to bring in a lot more revenue to be really effective at rewarding truly talented artists. But hey, radio is able to do it, and that's a "free" service too.

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#23
post #13

This is probably going to end up being a controversial opinion, but I just don't think music is worth that much anymore (fiscally speaking). Sure, there was a time when being popular meant signing a contract-- it was the only way to distribute your music on a large scale. Radio and physical copies were the only way to hear music, period. But these days with the internet and the right software practically anyone can c…

[deleted]

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#24
post #14

The RIAA takes all of Pandora's profits[1]. I think if they were smart they would back off and give Pandora a little breathing room to invest in marketing and tech. [1] http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3AP&fstype=ii&e...

For those of us not used to reading something like this, can you explain? Is the RIAA somewhere in here: "Selling/General/Admin. Expenses, Total"?

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#25
post #19
post #13

This is probably going to end up being a controversial opinion, but I just don't think music is worth that much anymore (fiscally speaking). Sure, there was a time when being popular meant signing a contract-- it was the only way to distribute your music on a large scale. Radio and physical copies were the only way to hear music, period. But these days with the internet and the right software practically anyone can c…

Give me all of the top music software in the world and I won't be able to create anything worth listening to. Your statement is kind of like saying since word processing software and electronic distribution are widely available, books really aren't worth the price tag. It's the creativity and hard work that goes into books and music that makes it worth the price--not the cost of the distribution medium.

There's still a development. Bands that I know used to have poor 8-track analog machines like 10 years ago. Now they use a standard-issue laptop and some additional hardware that cost maybe a couple of hundred bucks to make decent-quality recordings that they burn on cds and sell or give away. Skill is still one factor, but the other limiting factor - capital has been shrinking more and more. So there's more good music out there in good quality and that diminishes the price. Now wether that's good or bad - I don't know.

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#26
post #19
post #13

This is probably going to end up being a controversial opinion, but I just don't think music is worth that much anymore (fiscally speaking). Sure, there was a time when being popular meant signing a contract-- it was the only way to distribute your music on a large scale. Radio and physical copies were the only way to hear music, period. But these days with the internet and the right software practically anyone can c…

Give me all of the top music software in the world and I won't be able to create anything worth listening to. Your statement is kind of like saying since word processing software and electronic distribution are widely available, books really aren't worth the price tag. It's the creativity and hard work that goes into books and music that makes it worth the price--not the cost of the distribution medium.

Give me all of the top music software in the world and I won't be able to create anything worth listening to.

Perhaps this is a slight tangent, but are you sure about that? It seems daunting now, but that's probably because you're at the rock bottom of the learning curve. I'll bet there has been more than one brilliant musician who's looked at their sequencing software and thought "I could never write this". I don't mean to suggest that there's a Mozart inside everyone, but I don't see why we couldn't teach musical literacy as "easily" as we teach programming. Music Engineering 101?

Maybe more to the parent's point, it's also possible that it doesn't require a Mozart to make a popular song today. PSY's Gangnam Style is clever and fun but if you turn off the video and don't understand the lyrics, the music is basically sampled from 90s trance hits. You could make a similar argument for Lady Gaga. The major creativity seems to be something layered on top of the music. How notable would OK Go be without the brilliant videos? Yes yes, I love their music too - but there's a lot of great indie rock out there.

Maybe there is a supply/demand curve for music. It's an interesting perspective that I have never heard before. Also consider: Old music doesn't "expire", so as new music is created, it increases the total supply. New bands are not only competing with each other, they're competing with every band that has ever released music.

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#27

Pandora: Is there a reason the image on this blog post is so large? This one image, resized in the browser to 300x200, is consuming 2+ MB. Namely, this one: I've been noticing the resurgence of browser-based resizing of large images on a few different business blogs/formats, recently. In this case (and some others), the resize is to much less than 1/4 the original, so I'm thinking it's not a "Retina" thing. Maybe it'…

Probably an oversight. I usually surf on 30+ mbps connections, so if I were testing a site I wouldn't notice it.

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#28
post #14

The RIAA takes all of Pandora's profits[1]. I think if they were smart they would back off and give Pandora a little breathing room to invest in marketing and tech. [1] http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3AP&fstype=ii&e...

For those of us not used to reading something like this, can you explain? Is the RIAA somewhere in here: "Selling/General/Admin. Expenses, Total"?

I downloaded their detailed income statements[0]. The Google Finance income statement appears to be wrong. Google's income statements imply royalties of less than 8.5%.

In their latest quarter (Q2 FY2013) "Cost of Revenue" made up $68,036,000 on revenue of $101,267,000. Of that, "Content acquisition costs" were $60,522. That means royalties make up a whopping 60% of all revenue. They're not making a profit and have lost money in FY2012 and FY2011.

0. http://investor.pandora.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=227956&p=iro... (see Historical Financials).

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#29
I use Pandora and love the product. But every time I see this commercial with Tim Westergren where he states that the royalty system for internet radio is "deeply unfair" I can't help but wonder why he believes that to be true.

Where is it written that all distributors should pay the same price for their wares? Wal-Mart pays Proctor and Gamble a significantly lower cost than small grocers. Why? Because Wal-Mart, quite frankly, has P&G by the balls. Yet Wal-Mart is the source of more revenue for P&G than any other distributor, so they earn the right.

Now I realize that Pandora is the exact opposite- the distributor has no leverage, but I believe the same principle applies. There is absolutely no reason that distributors should be treated equally. Competition varies widely across different distribution channels. If Pandora can't operate at a profit, I don't believe it is incumbent on the artists to make way for their sustainability.

Re: What Pandora Pays Top Artists

#30
post #2

That seems more than I expected? Then again, don't quite know what the going for streaming revenue is.

I wonder if it's the amount that gets paid to the label, and then the artist gets a fraction of that?

No it is sent to Soundexchange, and is split 50/50 with artist and label. It is the performance royalty.

It is a different royalty than publishing royalty which is BMI/ASCAP and those monies are sent directly to the label and they decide how to dole it out.

FYI terrestrial radio pay's 0% of revenue for performance royalties, Satellite Radio pays about 8% of revenue and Pandora pays around 50%

This unfair system of royalty payments were set up by the RIAA mafia in the mid 90's to discourage Internet radio since it would be a direct competitor to the old guard.

That is why there is current legislation introduced 4 weeks ago to bring parity to the royalty system. Why should a song that is played on FM radio pay a different set of royalties than one played on Satellite or one streamed on the Internet?

I personally have received several checks from internet streaming, for some big hit songs I played on as a session musician, yet those same songs, which were played tens of millions of times on terrestrial radio, paid me NOTHING, because terrestrial radio does not pay performance royalties.

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