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Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

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Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#121

Post by fatal94 »

ck2 wrote: post #89
dragonwriter wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can only cure this if we get serious about penalties Saying that in the country with world-leading mass incarceration mostly due to its decades long “war on drugs” which has very much not cured drug problems is a perfect example of putting ideological preconceptions ahead of reality.

most people who get put in jail/prison for drugs do not get a "taste" of how horrible it is and get years right off the bat for first offense that's why I proposed five steps starting with warning, weekend, then week in jail if you spend a weekend in jail and don't change your behavior from doing something wildly dangerous yet absolutely not addicting, well then proceed to a year in prison note I am not saying put pe…

Driving towards a solution of "imprisoning more people" as punishment rather than other punishment have never succeeded. Many states already have first time drug offender and strike programs, people are already imprisoned over a weekend for things even as simple as misdemeanor possession until they can get a bail set. Rehabilitative forms of punishments such as severe fines, community service or mandatory classes and broadcasting them is much more effective in actually driving down rates of impaired drivers.

Whats more, police officers already have a wide authority of judgement when considering these factors around marijuana impairment currently. Relying on subjective evaluation from FST and physical presentation will only result in a higher rate of non impaired drivers being imprisoned.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#122

Post by master_crab »

Benjammer wrote: post #20
epistasis wrote: post #7

Based on the headline, I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC: > In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more law…

>Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more lawlessness regarding excessive speeding and running red lights, going into the left lane to turn right in front of stopped cars, all sorts of weird things NYC has had the same effect since COVID, and over the last year or two it's gotten to the point where every single light at every busy intersection in Manhattan you get 2-3 cars…

I haven’t seen driving behavior change in NYC over the past two decades.

Also, NYC has a different driving attitude than, say, Dallas. What people call aggression is often a difference in expectations. Drivers change lanes and merge far more assertively than in other parts of the country. As long as you aren’t causing the car behind you to panic brake, it’s considered acceptable. Hesitation from drivers tends to get more opprobrium than tight merges.

People block bike lanes and the box all the time. It’s annoying and you shouldn’t do it. But a lot of the rage is often unjustified. That FedEx truck needs to park somewhere and they aren’t going to roll over a fruit stand to do it.

It’s a dense, packed city. If you can’t give and take, you are going to hate it here.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#123

Post by bko »

roughly wrote: post #109
bko wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's lawlessness overall. For instance, consider San Fransisco traffic citations. Went from around 11k in 2014-2015 steadily down and then fell off a cliff during covid but never recovered (around 1k in 2023). I remember the sad story of Eric Garner who was killed in 2014 while being arrested for selling loose cigarettes in Staten Island. Today, at least in NYC, you see people parked out in front of the same…

I think it’s underappreciated the degree to which police and LEO have started behaving like political actors. NYC cops decided to “strike on the job” when the city started changing its stance in the mid-2010s, and in the Bay the cops responded similarly to Prop 47 by effectively not prosecuting shoplifting and other minor crimes anymore. Similarly, the recall of Pamela Price started almost the moment she took office…

There's probably some of this, but I think it's driven by district attorney not prosecuting people. We see people that have 20+ prior arrests. How many times can a cop arrest the same person and do the paperwork if he's not going to be prosecuted? I don't think people are pushing police to arrest more people.

> Nearly a third of all shoplifting arrests in New York City last year involved just 327 people, the police said. Collectively, they were arrested and rearrested more than 6,000 times, Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell said. Some engage in shoplifting as a trade, while others are driven by addiction or mental illness; the police did not identify the 327 people in the analysis.

Not clear if that's only in 1 year, but 6,000 arrests for the same 327 people means 18 arrests per person on average. Maybe if you see the same person shoplifting more than 5 times you put him away for some real time. 10 times? Hell even 20 strikes and you're out would make a real dent and serve as a deterrent.

https://archive.is/VCKkk#selection-473.0-473.379

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#124

Post by spamizbad »

macNchz wrote: post #91
Benjammer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more lawlessness regarding excessive speeding and running red lights, going into the left lane to turn right in front of stopped cars, all sorts of weird things NYC has had the same effect since COVID, and over the last year or two it's gotten to the point where every single light at every busy intersection in Manhattan you get 2-3 cars…

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak. Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in whi…

Yeah I feel like the United States could dramatically improve its road safety if it kept maybe 1-3% of its drivers off the road permanently.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#125

Post by moefh »

dragonwriter wrote: post #50
jjice wrote: post #6

Feels like a low sample size, but I'm not statistician or doctor. That said, almost everyone I know that consumes THC has no qualms driving while doing it, and many of them also at work. It's a huge peeve of mine.

> Feels like a low sample size Its not a sample, it is the whole universe of analysis. (If you treat it as a sample of, say, US drivers killed in accidents in the same period, then errors due to sample size are probably the least of its problems.)

We don't know that. We don't even know if there's selection bias.

The article says the research was "focusing on 246 deceased drivers who were tested for THC", and that the test usually happens when autopsies are performed. It doesn't say if autopsies are performed for all driver deaths, and it also doesn't say what exactly is "usually".

If (for example) autopsy only happens when the driver is suspected of drug use, then there's a clear selection bias.

Note that this doesn't mean the study is useless: they were able to see that legalization of cannabis didn't have impact on recreational use.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#126

Post by bko »

antonymoose wrote: post #84
bko wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's lawlessness overall. For instance, consider San Fransisco traffic citations. Went from around 11k in 2014-2015 steadily down and then fell off a cliff during covid but never recovered (around 1k in 2023). I remember the sad story of Eric Garner who was killed in 2014 while being arrested for selling loose cigarettes in Staten Island. Today, at least in NYC, you see people parked out in front of the same…

I do believe you’re mixing up Michael Brown in Missouri who robbed a gas station and assaulted a cop and attempted to steal his pistol (per your own link) with Eric Garner in New York who was choked out by a police officer and subsequently died.

Yes, I am. Updated. Thank you

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#127

Post by 1123581321 »

VerifiedReports wrote: post #94
dawnerd wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was tboned by someone that swore their light was green. I had a dedicated turn. Thank goodness for cameras. The trend I’ve noticed this year is turning right from the middle lane cutting off people in the turn lane.

Are they cutting them off, though? If the street you're turning onto has two lanes, it shouldn't be a problem for two cars to turn at once. The car on the inside is required to turn into the nearest lane (according to any state law I know), so why can't the car on its left turn into its own lane?

You’re not allowed to double right turn unless it’s explicitly marked, at least in the US.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#128

Post by carlmr »

macNchz wrote: post #91
Benjammer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more lawlessness regarding excessive speeding and running red lights, going into the left lane to turn right in front of stopped cars, all sorts of weird things NYC has had the same effect since COVID, and over the last year or two it's gotten to the point where every single light at every busy intersection in Manhattan you get 2-3 cars…

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak. Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in whi…

>it turns out that they got dozens of speed camera tickets per year

To me the answer is quite simple for any of these. Treat repeated small infractions like bigger and bigger infractions. E.g. double the cost every iteration if it happens within a specific time frame.

Ok, you speed once? $100. Twice $200. Thrice $400. And so on. We only reset if you don’t reoffend for any speeding in 5 years. If you want to speed 20 times in 5 years, ok, go ahead. You pay $52,428,800.

Bonus points for making it start at something relative to your salary. People will stop at some point out of self-preservation.

If you don’t believe high fines work, drive from Switzerland to Germany. In Germany the Swiss have no problem speeding, because the fines are laughable. While south of the border they behave very nicely on the street.

You could extend this to other crimes. Google and Microsoft happily pay fines, since it’s cheaper than what they make from breaking anti-trust regulations. If you doubled it on each infraction they would at some time start feeling the pain.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#129

Post by temp0826 »

macNchz wrote: post #91
Benjammer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more lawlessness regarding excessive speeding and running red lights, going into the left lane to turn right in front of stopped cars, all sorts of weird things NYC has had the same effect since COVID, and over the last year or two it's gotten to the point where every single light at every busy intersection in Manhattan you get 2-3 cars…

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak. Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in whi…

What the heck? How can you get that many tickets and still have a license? (Or manageable insurance costs for that matter lol)

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#130

Post by squigz »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #118
squigz wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link doesn't appear to say that blood tests are reliable Literally in the summary > While blood alcohol content (BAC) level represents an accurate measurement of alcohol impairment, the presence of THC in a driver’s body has not been shown to be a predictable measure of cannabis impairment. But further on > Because THC in the blood can result from both recent as well as past use, impairment cannot be inferred fr…

That’s not the relevant bit. A blood test detects recent use of THC. Which other, less invasive methods cannot. Like alcohol, impairment is highly individual and so we set a threshold.

It is not a reliable indicator of recent use though, since it can also indicate past use.

I agree we need to set a threshold for impairment. I just want that to be measured reliably so that people who had a brownie last weekend aren't getting in trouble.

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