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Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

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Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#91

Post by macNchz »

Benjammer wrote: post #20
epistasis wrote: post #7

Based on the headline, I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC: > In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more law…

>Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more lawlessness regarding excessive speeding and running red lights, going into the left lane to turn right in front of stopped cars, all sorts of weird things NYC has had the same effect since COVID, and over the last year or two it's gotten to the point where every single light at every busy intersection in Manhattan you get 2-3 cars…

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak.

Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in which a driver runs people over in some egregious fashion, it turns out that they got dozens of speed camera tickets per year. We know who these people are, we just don’t seem to have any motivation to actually do anything about it.

The city has published research on this, showing drivers who get 30+ speed camera tickets in a year are 50x as likely to be involved in crashes with serious injuries or death, but efforts to actually do something about their behavior are consistently stalled or watered down. Other research points to various causes, including backed up courts and decreased enforcement generally.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pr2025/nyc-dot-advocate-fo...

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nyc-driver-behavi...

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#92

Post by tptacek »

formerly_proven wrote: post #83
Sparkle-san wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got any real sources? I've been a daily user for over 10 years and also have a spotless driving record.

It is very noticeable to basically everyone when you consume cannabis regularly.

I don't (I find cannabis unpleasant) but I don't think this is at all true.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#93

Post by nobodyandproud »

xienze wrote: post #52
reactordev wrote: post #29

Just noting there’s a difference between THC in your system and THC in your blood. THC leaves the bloodstream after your high. Goes into fat cells and other areas to be broken down and processed (up to a month) later. Having it in the bloodstream after an accident means they were intoxicated at the time according to science. Whether their CB1 receptors were letting it through is another matter. I can smoke a lot of w…

> So until we have a valid method of testing if someone is “too stoned to drive” we have to push back on any attempt to classify marijuana users as ineligible to drive. You’re not really going to win anybody over to the legalization side when you basically say that people can consume as much THC as they want and drive without any penalties because of testing limitations.

Given that driving isn’t a right, there’s more leeway to be more strict.

I used to bike-ride a lot, but the number unaccountable drivers and the increase in dispensaries in the NYC tri-state gave me pause.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#94

Post by VerifiedReports »

dawnerd wrote: post #82
gretch wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The running red lights thing is crazy. I think at it's height, I would maybe see 3 people do this in a single 20 minute drive. And not like running a late yellow, but a full on my-light-is-green-and-there's-a-guy-in-front-of-me-sideways It has dropped a bit now though.

I was tboned by someone that swore their light was green. I had a dedicated turn. Thank goodness for cameras. The trend I’ve noticed this year is turning right from the middle lane cutting off people in the turn lane.

Are they cutting them off, though? If the street you're turning onto has two lanes, it shouldn't be a problem for two cars to turn at once. The car on the inside is required to turn into the nearest lane (according to any state law I know), so why can't the car on its left turn into its own lane?

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#95

Post by [deleted] »

bko wrote: post #79
epistasis wrote: post #7

Based on the headline, I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC: > In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more law…

I think it's lawlessness overall. For instance, consider San Fransisco traffic citations. Went from around 11k in 2014-2015 steadily down and then fell off a cliff during covid but never recovered (around 1k in 2023). I remember the sad story of Eric Garner who was killed in 2014 while being arrested for selling loose cigarettes in Staten Island. Today, at least in NYC, you see people parked out in front of the same…

[deleted]

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#96

Post by walletdrainer »

ck2 wrote: post #45

I live in a "working poor" neighborhood 50% of the people on this street get stoned before driving to work, every single day dope isn't even legal here and even if it was DUI is wildly illegal We can only cure this if we get serious about penalties because we can't undo murder and injuries How about first time warning, second time weekend in jail, third time week in jail, fourth time month in jail, fifth time year in…

> How about first time warning, second time weekend in jail, third time week in jail, fourth time month in jail, fifth time year in prison

Those laws exist, and often result in people who should be receiving treatment spending years of their life in prison.

Someone who gets 5+ DUIs isn’t likely to be deterred by schemes like this

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#97

Post by elif »

epistasis wrote: post #7

Based on the headline, I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC: > In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more law…

It is crucial to consider correlated variables in their correct context. This finding does not even imply impairment.

A low emotional intelligence driver, one with depression or low self worth, perhaps a psychological pathology like narcissism or nihilism. This is the type of person to initiate vehicular homicide. Intoxicant intake is a SUBSET of this group of variables.

The archetypical homicidal driver would of course have exceptionally high representation in cannabis use, and also likely cigarette use, and probably nitrous oxide but they don't measure that.

EDIT: what I will say is that dab culture is something beyond traditional cannabis use, and I could absolutely theorize that dab use in a vehicle is the new drunk driving.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#98

Post by pinkmuffinere »

formerly_proven wrote: post #83
Sparkle-san wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got any real sources? I've been a daily user for over 10 years and also have a spotless driving record.

It is very noticeable to basically everyone when you consume cannabis regularly.

I think serious studies would be strongly preferred here, as compared to anecdotes or conjecture. I don’t even know if I disagree with your stance, it’s just an absence of data is not convincing.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#99

Post by jama211 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #58
ck2 wrote: post #45

I live in a "working poor" neighborhood 50% of the people on this street get stoned before driving to work, every single day dope isn't even legal here and even if it was DUI is wildly illegal We can only cure this if we get serious about penalties because we can't undo murder and injuries How about first time warning, second time weekend in jail, third time week in jail, fourth time month in jail, fifth time year in…

> We can only cure this if we get serious about penalties Saying that in the country with world-leading mass incarceration mostly due to its decades long “war on drugs” which has very much not cured drug problems is a perfect example of putting ideological preconceptions ahead of reality.

Very well said. It worries me how quick people are to leap to “we’ll just imprison people that’ll help” despite endless data that says the opposite

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#100

Post by nobodyandproud »

Arainach wrote: post #70
xienze wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So until we have a valid method of testing if someone is “too stoned to drive” we have to push back on any attempt to classify marijuana users as ineligible to drive. You’re not really going to win anybody over to the legalization side when you basically say that people can consume as much THC as they want and drive without any penalties because of testing limitations.

On the contrary: we should test for the actual issue (impairment) rather than an arbitrary number.

Blood test is a reliable indicator: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/judicial/resources/highwa...
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