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Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

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Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#341

Post by charcircuit »

protocolture wrote: post #271
brokencode wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. It’s just going to become an expectation that AI is in the browser. It’s so nice just to be able to ask the browser to summarize the page, or ask questions about a long article. I know a lot of people on Hacker News are hostile to AI and like to imagine everybody hates it, but I personally find it very helpful.

>It’s just going to become an expectation that AI is in the browser. Why? Is there evidence to back this up? Are there massive customer write in campaigns trying to convince browser companies to push more AI? >I know a lot of people on Hacker News are hostile to AI and like to imagine everybody hates it, but I personally find it very helpful. I love it. I love going to the AI place and knowingly consulting the AI for…

The evidence is the billions of people who copy text to and from ChatGPT to other web pages.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#342

Post by therouwboat »

heavyset_go wrote: post #297
protocolture wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly why I am baffled. You would think they could read the writing on the wall.

I don't like it, but ChatGPT is a product that nearly a billion people are using. It's broken into popular culture. My mom, who has trouble sending an email, uses it. She found it on her own. More importantly, generative AI is incredibly popular with younger cohorts. They will grow up to be your customer base if they aren't already. Their expectations are being set now . Again, I don't like it, but that's the reality…

Co-worker was talking about how he tried to make invitation card with chatgpt, just a picture of his house and text and AI failed to do it. It said he didn't have copyright to the picture and used another random pic, layout was wrong etc. Then younger co-worker gave tips how to do it, what tools to use and offered to make it with his better AI program.

What could be done in few minutes with a free program is now multiple hours with billion dollar AI tools and you have less control what the end result is.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#343

Post by charcircuit »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #283
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Imagine you have an AI button. When you click it, the locally running LLM gets a copy of the web site in the context window, and you get to ask it a prompt, e.g. "summarize this". Imagine the browser asks you at some point, whether you want to hear about new features. The buttons offered to you are "FUCK OFF AND NEVER, EVER BOTHER ME AGAIN", "Please show me a summary once a month", "Show timely, non-modal notifi…

>Imagine you have an AI button. When you click it, the locally running LLM gets a copy of the web site in the context window, and you get to ask it a prompt, e.g. "summarize this". but.. why? I can read the website myself . That's why I'm on the website.

People have a limited amount of time, so they may prefer spending it on something else than what a computer can do for them.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#344

Post by prmoustache »

999900000999 wrote: post #148
Tempest1981 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing everything into a plug-in is architecturally more complex, and less performant... I'm imagining proxying from native code through JavaScript APIs, then back to native code for LLM operations and context storage. But might lead to creation of some new AI extension APIs.

Then ship a FireFoxAI browser for users who want it. Forcing everyone to by default use AI isn't freedom. I might as well just use Chrome.

Is it using AI if you don't click on the feature's related button? AFAIK when I choose to translate a page or a selection it only starts working when I do it.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#345

Post by prmoustache »

jamesgill wrote: post #93
HelloUsername wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not make them disabled by default, with the option to turn them on? "All AI features will also be opt-in"

He said there would be both an "AI kill switch" but that it's also "opt-in". Taken together, his two statements seem a little...odd.

I guess that just means that there will be a number of AI related features you can choose to select but if at some point you want it all gone you just hit the checkmark Disable all AI.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#346

Post by prmoustache »

reidrac wrote: post #29
nemomarx wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new CEO said he views it as a monetization source. I'm not really sure how, but he apparently has something in mind I can't think of.

The chatbot can provide sponsored responses. Not sure how evident those will be, but I think it will happen. Surely is in Google's mind.

There are other ways to monetize. For instance small local AI models by default with option to pay to use faster/more efficient AI models remotely.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#347

Post by robryan »

protocolture wrote: post #317
krisgenre wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+ Children are growing up with ChatGPT and Gemini. It has already become the de facto standard for learning. AI in browsers is inevitable.

"Children are growing up with ChatGPT and Gemini" Yes. "It has already become the de facto standard for learning." Maybe. "AI in browsers is inevitable." Why. How does that follow. It seems like ChatGPT and Gemini are already working fine, what does the integration add?

And assuming people want deeper integration is the browser even the right level of abstraction? Arguably it would be better to have something that was operating at the OS level, like siri/gemini assistant style.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#348

Post by amethyst »

charcircuit wrote: post #338
protocolture wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it's a browser that "just works." We can't have this if Firefox stays in the pre-ai era. Strongly disagree. Theres no expectation of AI as a core browsing experience. There isnt even really an expectation of AI as part of an extended browsing experience. We cant even predict reliably what AI's relationship to browsing will be if it is even to exist. Mozilla could reliably wait 24 months and follow if featur…

This is how Firefox fell behind Chrome and bled their entire market share. The strategy of letting Chrome out innovate them and then copy what they think is good is not a strategy that works.

It works pretty well for Apple

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#349

Post by zwnow »

klardotsh wrote: post #319
samschooler wrote: post #23

I'm going to chime in here, I think 1. This is great and Mozilla is listening to it's core fans and 2. I want Firefox to be a competitive browser. Without AI enabled features + agent mode being first class citizens, this will be a non-starter in 2 years. I want my non-tech family members/friends to install Firefox not because I come over at Christmas, but because they want to. Because it's a browser that "just works.…

Fully disagree. I use zero so-called "AI" features in my day to day life. None. Not one. Why do I need them in my browser, and why does my browser need to focus on something that, several years into the hype wave, I still *do not use at all*? And it's not for a lack of trying, the results are just not what I need or want, and traditional browsing (and search engines, etc.) does do what I want. I'd be elated if Firefo…

I agree, why support pushing the masses into another big tech machinery that just rips off their data and collectively makes it worse for all of us again? We are already way too cool with people frying their brains on X, TikTok, Instagram and whatnot. If anything, as devs, we should help people get back to focus on their own lifes over monetization of attentionspans. But this industry has no backbone and is constantly letting people down for a quick buck.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#350

Post by azangru »

sigmar wrote: post #163
MisterTea wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this will be a non-starter in 2 years. Why though? Seriously.

Do you ever need a website you're visiting translated? Have you ever not understood a term or phrase on a website and had to go to wikipedia/urbandictionary/google to explain it? Have you ever wanted to do a 'fuzzy search' of a 300 page document (where you don't know the exact string of text to ctrl-f, but want to see where they talk about a particular topic)?

> Do you ever...

There probably is a big difference between 'do you ever' and 'how often do you'.

I very rarely visit websites that I want translated; so rarely that I can tolerate google translate, or copying and pasting a section of a page into a tab with gemini; so on its own, this feature wouldn't sell me a browser. Besides, as a sibling comment says, even the current non-AI-enhanced browsers offer, sometimes too intrusively, to translate a page in a non-matching language. At least Chrome does this to me.

Your second scenario happens much more frequently; but again, it is so frictionless to type the term or a phrase in a search box in another tab that I never find myself wishing for a dedicated panel in the browser that could do this for me.

Your third scenario, for me, is finding something in api docs. Like, what's that command again to git cherry-pick a range of commits? So far, just googling this stuff or asking copilot / gemini in a separate tab has always worked. I am not sure I would be upset at a browser that didn't have an inbuilt tool for doing this.

What I do want from a web browser is evergreenness, the quickest and fullest adoption of all the web specs, and great web developer tools.

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