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Please just try HTMX

pleasejusttryhtmx.com

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Re: Please just try HTMX

#161

Post by adamzwasserman »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #151
recursivedoubts wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there is anything in unpoly that a good llm couldn’t figure out with a look over the docs pretty quickly. It’s pretty simple and has some great functionality, especially if you are shooting for progressive enhancement.

Well, I actually use Unpoly, and I can assure you that LLMs don't get it, no matter how many pointers to the (excellent!) docs one includes. Like, even just now, Claude Code with Opus 4-dot-latest, is absolutely convinced you need a bunch of fragile cascading Javascript listeners to dismiss a lower-level menu in case a dialog is opened, while the Unpoly docs, correctly and clearly, point out that 'shatter' exists for…

I have the same problem. I guess we will just have to train our own SLM with a carefully selected (unpolluted) training corpus.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#162

Post by azangru »

librasteve wrote: post #103
recursivedoubts wrote: post #29

Hey, I created htmx and while I appreciate the publicity, I’m not a huge fan of these types of hyperbolic articles. There are lots of different ways to build web apps with their own strengths and weaknesses. I try to assess htmx’s strengths and weaknesses here: https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/ Also, please try unpoly: https://unpoly.com/ It’s another excellent hypermedia oriented library Edit: the arti…

HTMX Sucks https://htmx.org/essays/htmx-sucks/

> No Jobs

> Another practical reason not to use htmx is that there are, rounding off, zero htmx jobs.

> I just did a search for htmx jobs on indeed and found a grand total of two: one at Microsoft and one at Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

> A search for “react”, on the other hand, gives 13,758 jobs.

> Seriously, developer, which of these two technologies do you want to hitch your career to?

I do not advocated for htmx; but this take is so bad!

Resume-driven development should not be a thing. If you are a professional developer, building a product for a user, your primary concern should not be the job market for when you quit the company you are working for, but rather making the best product possible for the user within the context of the current company. And if the product is such that it does not call for react, or some other javascript-rich client, then you shouldn't use it however many react jobs there may be on Indeed.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#163

Post by forgotpwd16 »

xnorswap wrote: post #39
avisser wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why bother learning two paradigms Objection. Your React is ultimately turning into HTML so you DO have to learn HTML + CSS. You just have an abstraction over it.

That's like saying my C# is getting turned into CLR bytecode, so I do have to learn CLR bytecode because I have an abstraction over it. Yet I know roughly what it is, but I couldn't begin to actually write the stuff myself. Good abstractions mean you don't have to worry about the layer below. Now of course it's not really the case that React holds up to being a good abstraction, especially when it comes to CSS and st…

React is an abstraction over UI state, not the platform (ie HTML/CSS). This is by design and non-parallel to C#/CLR case. If you want something akin to this, then Flutter is what you should be looking at.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#164

Post by adamzwasserman »

g947o wrote: post #15

I am tired of people using the smallest "Hello World" example to demonstrate how something is better than React -- "See, you don't need all these things to get a website up and running!" Of course it will work. I can vibe code the most terrible web framework you have seen within 20 minutes and claim it is better than React, but what does it prove? > You write zero JavaScript > The whole library is ~14kb gzipped Oh su…

DecisionMe is one the apps I created using htmx. I am not the owner of the company, so I cannot comp you, but I can promise in good faith: this is not a toy app.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#166

Post by mrinterweb »

HTML over the wire frameworks like HTMX, Hotwire (rails), LiveView (phoenix), Livewire (laravel), LiveView (django), etc. They all have the same basic idea with differences in how they achieve it. I feel this approach is overlooked, and it drives me crazy. There is a huge complexity cost attached with JS frontend app + backend that everyone seems to have accepted as reality. HTML over the wire (really need a catchy acronym maybe HotW) can greatly simplify and speed up development with pretty much the same end user experience as a react app.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#167

Post by iloveplants »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #147
CooCooCaCha wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello world in react is just a few lines of code that mounts a react component to a dom element. There should be zero network requests beyond the initial download of html and js. You’re either doing something wrong or not actually doing a hello world.

I don’t know but vite was involved, looks like it was setting up live updates. This is part of the problem, you can’t just include a script apparently.

vite adds additional things to your page in dev so that it's easier to debug. when you are running it in production, it is just one js bundle & one css file.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#169

Post by recursivedoubts »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #151
recursivedoubts wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there is anything in unpoly that a good llm couldn’t figure out with a look over the docs pretty quickly. It’s pretty simple and has some great functionality, especially if you are shooting for progressive enhancement.

Well, I actually use Unpoly, and I can assure you that LLMs don't get it, no matter how many pointers to the (excellent!) docs one includes. Like, even just now, Claude Code with Opus 4-dot-latest, is absolutely convinced you need a bunch of fragile cascading Javascript listeners to dismiss a lower-level menu in case a dialog is opened, while the Unpoly docs, correctly and clearly, point out that 'shatter' exists for…

ah, then I defer to your experience, i hope that it improves: unpoly is an excellent library

Re: Please just try HTMX

#170

Post by recursivedoubts »

athrowaway3z wrote: post #36

I'm a big fan of returning html instead of json when possible and I've been htmx curious for a bit. With all the examples people keep using, I assumed it would be way smaller. 16kb minified is a lot. Looking at the docs just now the core api seems reasonable, but it a lot larger than I'd assumed.

our minimalist version of htmx is fixi.js:

https://github.com/bigskysoftware/fixi

1181kb brotli'd (no minification)

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