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Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

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Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#31
post #22

This is not just a problem in Spain. Affordable housing is a problem in almost every Western metro, both in the US and in Europe. The problem is caused by the financialization of real estate. I know it's always been a bit of a financial asset, but the past 40 years have really seen this accelerate to pretty crazy levels. The issue, when you boil it down to the basics is: wealthy folks, development companies, overseas…

Is it not a supply and demand problem? Then the only rational solution to get prices down is to build more housing.

I’d argue it’s not as simple as that. A city like Lisbon with a sudden influx of expats risks moving to a very unhealthy economic environment.

Expats come, locals are pushed out, existing business is replaced by business catering towards expats. But an economy built on being a trendy expat location is not sustainable. Expats will leave to a new place eventually, and then the city is dead. This dynamic is accelerated by the fact that locals are forced out when expacts come, but the city was attractive in the first place because of how charming locals made it.

If you run the city - and imagine it’s a company, and you’re the CEO - you can see that your city is falling for a hype train that will eventually kill it. The smart thing is to not let that hype train happen.

Because expat purchase power is a mutliple of your locals, you need to find other levers. Every company would do the same thing.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#32
post #22

This is not just a problem in Spain. Affordable housing is a problem in almost every Western metro, both in the US and in Europe. The problem is caused by the financialization of real estate. I know it's always been a bit of a financial asset, but the past 40 years have really seen this accelerate to pretty crazy levels. The issue, when you boil it down to the basics is: wealthy folks, development companies, overseas…

Is it not a supply and demand problem? Then the only rational solution to get prices down is to build more housing.

Some places derive their identity and tourism income largely from how they look. Building could be slaying the goose that lays the golden egg.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#33
post #22

This is not just a problem in Spain. Affordable housing is a problem in almost every Western metro, both in the US and in Europe. The problem is caused by the financialization of real estate. I know it's always been a bit of a financial asset, but the past 40 years have really seen this accelerate to pretty crazy levels. The issue, when you boil it down to the basics is: wealthy folks, development companies, overseas…

Taxes, too. At the end of 2024 I had ~€200k or so saved up and was renting, so I got hit with box 3 tax. Now in 2025 that money is in my house which I just bought, and taxes are close to nothing. So my incentive is for house prices to go up.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More supply is crucial but efforts to reduce demand in the mean time probably won't hurt either. If tourists can stay in hotels and hostels that take up less housing that seems good? But you still need to build more housing obviously

Wouldn’t that cause an artificial pressure against construction?

I don't think dramatically, because the issue right now is that residential housing can be used for short-term commercial accomodation. It feels like the connection between these supply & demand curves is limited.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it not a supply and demand problem? Then the only rational solution to get prices down is to build more housing.

Some places derive their identity and tourism income largely from how they look. Building could be slaying the goose that lays the golden egg.

Also, some places physically cannot grow outwards anymore, either because other cities are in the way or because of geographical elements like mountains being in the way. Barcelona is one such city, with one of the highest population density per km2. Only way is to build taller buildings, but no one wants to live in a city where you can't see the sky (ya ya, except Hong Kong and other places, don't ask me how they do it).

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#36
post #10

As far as I understand this is the latest shot in the conflict between Spain and its lack of affordable housing. I'd put the symbolic start around 2004-2006 [1] with the movement called "you won't have a house in your fucking life" where people all over Spain started demonstrating against high apartment prices. I don't like AirBnB and I'm glad they got fined, but the Spanish government also needs to accept that they…

> I don't like AirBnB and I'm glad they got fined, but the Spanish government also needs to accept that they have been sitting around doing nothing for roughly 20 years. Looks like politicians all over will do everything in their power except actually building more apartments. I am totally unfamiliar with Spain, but wondering what would government have to do to improve the situation? They wouldn’t build government ow…

Typically, government can step in by changing zoning ordinances that would allow for larger multi-family buildings. At least from my US perspective and assuming other countries would have something similar. There's a city near me that has an ordinance stating no buildings taller than four stories are allowed. If that was modified to allow up to ten story buildings, you could drastically increase number of units available.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#37

I distincly recall many articles stating that for ridiculous EUR like 50k you could buy housing in spain right after 2007 the crisis, for many years afterward. Because it was so overbuilt , at least outside of the big metros) that the builders and sellers were desperate to move. I wonder if they all wiped out by the crisis (subprime really hit spain hard), and what we are seeing now is the consequence of that wipeout…

Major population center rent trends will tell this story (STRs crowding out long term rentals), look at rent pricing in Barcelona for example.

(own property in Spain)

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#38

[flagged]

"Let's break the law and hope that we get rich enough to lobby before we get shut down" isn't innovation.

The word disrupt makes me roll my eyes like I'm 13 again. It has become a dog whistle to me now that when I hear it, I immediately want to walk away from whatever pitch is being offered.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#39
post #10

As far as I understand this is the latest shot in the conflict between Spain and its lack of affordable housing. I'd put the symbolic start around 2004-2006 [1] with the movement called "you won't have a house in your fucking life" where people all over Spain started demonstrating against high apartment prices. I don't like AirBnB and I'm glad they got fined, but the Spanish government also needs to accept that they…

> I don't like AirBnB and I'm glad they got fined, but the Spanish government also needs to accept that they have been sitting around doing nothing for roughly 20 years. Looks like politicians all over will do everything in their power except actually building more apartments. I am totally unfamiliar with Spain, but wondering what would government have to do to improve the situation? They wouldn’t build government ow…

All of that probably. Also not that familiar with Spain. But the same issue is visible all over Europe. Basically apartments in nice areas are rented out to tourists for much more than would be affordable for locals. The advantage for the property owner is that these are short term rentals that are very lucrative. With long term renters, they basically the rental prices are highly regulated and in many countries it's very hard to terminate rental contracts. In some places renting out property is now so unattractive that landlords just sell off the property which removes it from the market entirely. That's what happened in the Netherlands in recent years.

And meanwhile, getting any kind of building permits is super hard so there's only a trickle of new property being built that lags behind demand.

There's a real estate bubble where real estate value outgrows inflation structurally. So housing is getting more and more expensive. To the point where a normal person with a normal income has basically no chance at all at finding anything decent on the market.

The solution of building more housing and making it easier for property owners to rent out their property are consistently not happening. The Netherlands actually has large amounts of empty property where the owners prefer to not rent it out and keep their investment liquid because it's such a PITA to get out of an agreement. There's also a history of privatized housing corporations selling off their property to make some quick money for the share holders. The net result is a huge mess of private property that is either not rented out or rented out at extortion prices. At the same time there's also growing amount of empty commercial real estate. Because people work from home now. Converting that for housing is another regulation challenge.

The problem isn't greed but broken policy. The reflex of "protecting" renters has had the opposite negative effects on the rental market. Things like Airbnb are more like a symptom than the cause of this.

The way I see it, house construction should not be expensive. It's artificial scarcity. A 50K camper can be pretty comfortable. But forget about having the right to use that as a place to live. You are instead expected to pay extortion rents or buy your own 500K piece of shit tiny apartment that is actually smaller and less comfortable than the bloody camper. A camper is just a house with wheels. Those are mass produced in factories. Houses without wheels should be much simpler to make. This never was a technical problem. Prefab housing is kind of a solved problem. It's not that hard. Any idiot can construct a garden shed in an afternoon. If the rules were different, most big cities would have huge slums with campers and other improvised housing. Regulation is what keeps this under control. But when policy breaks down, slums like that become the next logical level of this crisis.

A good example of exemptions in the Netherlands are so-called holiday homes where people live permanently; despite this clearly being illegal. Evicting people would create an unsolvable problem for bureaucrats. So, a lot of people that live like that got their situation legalized. And of course recreational units tend to be in nice places too. So, it's a popular thing. If tens of thousands of people start parking their campers on the edge of town bureaucrats would struggle to address the issue without creating a bigger crisis.

Probably something like this will force a solution eventually.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#40
post #22

This is not just a problem in Spain. Affordable housing is a problem in almost every Western metro, both in the US and in Europe. The problem is caused by the financialization of real estate. I know it's always been a bit of a financial asset, but the past 40 years have really seen this accelerate to pretty crazy levels. The issue, when you boil it down to the basics is: wealthy folks, development companies, overseas…

Also, are you aware your personal site has a malicious captcha? It looks like cloudflare but has instructions to press windows-R and paste the auto-copied text which runs a malicious msi.

I was surprised since you are such a prolific commentator. Almost fell for it. Hope it’s not social engineering.

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