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Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

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Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#71

Post by kelnos »

halapro wrote: post #54
wackget wrote: post #50

I feel like all these articles are writing about the wrong thing. Yeah, it sucks that the guy's account got banned, and yeah, maybe we can't trust gift cards. But the truly troublesome issue is how an entire ecosystem of (very expensive) hardware is allowed to be tied to an identity controlled by a giant black box of a corporation. What I mean is: you can spend thousands and thousands on devices and configure them to…

This is something governments should really try to tackle, but I'm afraid that their solution would be a government ID rather than proper guidance and rules for these behemoths. The way I see it resolved is for Google and Apple to link the accounts to a physical person via government ID so that if you want issues to be resolved you'd have to verify yourself. This would also limit abuse by bad parties. Now, do you wan…

> Now, do you want all of your web accounts be linked to your government ID?

No, but I don't think that's actually necessary. My cloud storage account with Google could be linked to my government ID, and... that might be ok? This sort of plan wouldn't require, e.g., my HN account to be linked to my ID.

Yes, that would mean that some people (e.g. activists under repressive regimes) shouldn't be storing stuff that could get them in trouble in Google Docs or iCloud Photos, but... they probably shouldn't be doing that now anyway.

But this would still require governments passing laws to prevent arbitrary account closures. Linking an account with an ID doesn't automatically make Apple/Google behave. The legally-mandated process would need to be something like: automated system detects fraud, they call the police, police investigate, and either a) they see nothing and drop it, and Google/Apple are required to drop it, or b) they investigate, prosecutors bring charges, and the outcome of the court proceedings is binding on Google/Apple (conviction = account terminated, exoneration = no retaliation allowed).

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#72

Post by dylan604 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #65
Apreche wrote: post #18

The real problem is that companies do not offer any accessible, powerful, and intelligent customer support. Even if they have real humans to talk to, they simply follow a script. Those agents do not have the ability to investigate a situation or the power to use their discretion to take meaningful action. We should impose, by law, the following rules on all companies that offer accounts to their customers. 1. If they…

The real real problem are shameless shitheads that will abuse anything to any length the run scams or malware distributions. " Yes support tech, please understand my child just died of cancer and my wife in a car accident last week and the only pictures I have of them are on my bitcoin4free@gmail.com account! " Google probably also bans thousands of accounts a day. And suddenly every single one of them needs a full h…

I know you're just trying to pull something out of thin air that sounds plausible, but...this would be simple to prove with a request for valid death certificates, marriage license, and a birth certificate to prove you were married, the child is yours, and that both are in fact deceased. Oh, and of course, you'll have to prove who you are as well.

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#73

Post by csomar »

oidar wrote: post #7

I'm glad that got resolved for Paris, but what the hell is a normal person supposed to do. Not every one has that kind of public reach to get a satisfactory resolution. First he had understand what happened technically, then he needed a public platform to tell people about it, then that writing needed to get reposted by others, than PR needed to get involved. Not something that's going to happen for a normal user. Ap…

> but what the hell is a normal person supposed to do.

Not store their data in their iPhones. Period. I only store temporary data and photos I wouldn't care about.

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#74

Post by bombcar »

lvl155 wrote: post #21

I experienced something similar recently. There’s something going on with gift cards at Apple. It’s a bit fishy. As in they don’t want you to use it so they can report higher holiday season sales. Or they’re experiencing a huge uptick in scams involving the cards. I started wondering if the system they use is actually secure from a cryptographical pov. My lessons were: 1) if you’re going to accrue gift cards for hard…

There are apparently large amounts of NEW gift card scams going around; Target has recently changed how they work and I've heard other reports.

Frankly, staying away from gift cards seems the best option unless it's blast radius can be limited (e.g., redeemed in person).

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#75

Post by ghjv »

dylan604 wrote: post #67
ndriscoll wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've made it clear that you don't own your cloud library, so the only reasonable answer is to never pay for something with DRM you cannot remove (including things that require an online account for functionality you consider important), and treat services like Steam as a temporary convenience to download known good files that you then fix to remove any DRM. If you only treat these services as a download tool, thei…

I'm not an avid gamer, so maybe this is a naive question, but how do you know these things before you buy the game?

Steam's lawyers would say that one should know by reading the terms of service for the storefront and the purchase. But in the real world, how often does that happen?

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#76

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

oidar wrote: post #7

I'm glad that got resolved for Paris, but what the hell is a normal person supposed to do. Not every one has that kind of public reach to get a satisfactory resolution. First he had understand what happened technically, then he needed a public platform to tell people about it, then that writing needed to get reposted by others, than PR needed to get involved. Not something that's going to happen for a normal user. Ap…

> as they are both in the advertisement business

Apple isn't. Just sayin'. They are trying to do it, but they aren't really anywhere near the scale of Google and Facebook. They make money (lots of money) by selling high-margin hardware, and, to some extent, digital media, on that hardware.

Currently, Apple is genuinely serious about preserving user privacy. I realize that can change, in the future, but it's the way it is, now. I get the feeling that a lot of folks on HN are having difficulty understanding businesses that make a profit by doing stuff other than harvesting and selling PiD, but that's not what has made Apple a 4 trillion-dollar company. They make that money the old-fashioned way; but with a modern twist.

That said, this situation is unforgivable, and I hope that Apple leads by example, by preventing this all-too-common type of dumpster fire from happening in the future.

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#77

Post by wat10000 »

tiffanyh wrote: post #34

I don’t want to minimize the pain people experience here, but it’s worth calling out just how hard this problem is for retailers and issuers. Gift cards are the #1 fraud vector in payments ... because it lets stolen cards be converted into a cash-like equivalent with zero traceability. So fraud/risk system are highly sensitive to gift cards. It's not an excuse, but I see in this thread people minimizing the problem a…

And yet they continue to sell these cards. Why?

It's simple: they're essentially free money. The worst case for them is that the recipient of the card uses the full amount of the card. In that case, the issuer "only" makes the full profit on those sales. Often they do better: the card is used partially or not at all, then lost or forgotten about.

You can see how lucrative they are by looking at promotions. You can often find deals where you can buy a $100 card for $90, or similar. Why would you sell a dollar for 90 cents? Because you know that on average you're selling quite a bit less than a dollar.

As for the fraud risk... do they even care? When gift cards are used for crime, the issuer doesn't suffer. Maybe they have to deal with upset customers, but that's hardly new. Most of the time, the gift card is bought legitimately, given to criminals, resold, used by the secondary buyer, and the only one who suffers is the unfortunate scam victim who bought it.

It would be so easy to make gift cards more secure. Modern technology can do a lot better than an alphanumeric code under a sticky cover. The fact that they don't bother should tell you everything you need to know about how important fraud is for them.

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#78

Post by bombcar »

paulpauper wrote: post #45
purpleflame1257 wrote: post #4

Every time a read a story like this, I feel an atavistic desire to self-host eveything. But I've had my Google account for 20 years now; the die is cast.

creating backups is crucial. this includes all the contacts, texts of saved emails, photos and so on. Many of these ppl who get locked out fail to create local backups and rely on apple's cloud storage. big mistake.

Even just simulating "what if I lost this account" and seeing what you can't access (have your wife change your password and not tell you for a month or so, say) - tells you what you'll be missing.

The tendrils can run deep.

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#79

Post by [deleted] »

oidar wrote: post #7

I'm glad that got resolved for Paris, but what the hell is a normal person supposed to do. Not every one has that kind of public reach to get a satisfactory resolution. First he had understand what happened technically, then he needed a public platform to tell people about it, then that writing needed to get reposted by others, than PR needed to get involved. Not something that's going to happen for a normal user. Ap…

[deleted]

Re: Are Apple gift cards safe to redeem?

#80

Post by stackskipton »

ryandrake wrote: post #56
estimator7292 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks frequently completely freeze accounts for no discernable reason and with zero communication, support, or recourse. You're just lucky that it hasn't happened to you. That does not mean it doesn't happen to anyone.

What I want to know is why does it always have to go straight from 0 to 100? There's seemingly no concept of proportion. For most online services, your account can be in one of two states: Totally good and "banned for life". There's no warning, no investigative period, no concept of scale (was the fraud $10 or $10,000?), no way to serve your time and come back if you actually were bad. It's just instant, silent BAN H…

As someone who worked in fraud, sometimes the $10 transaction is primer for 10k transaction that will really cost the company. When you don't know what's going on, you don't give a shit about end user and primary objective is prevent the company from losing money, shut it down and sort it out is easiest way.

Furthermore, without physical presence where you could sit down with someone, this becomes more difficult to deal with. Truth is, Apple should have option where someone could go to Apple Store, verify ID and talk to someone with power but they don't want to spend that money so here we are.

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