91–100 of 530 posts
Not HTMX but Alpine.js has been a complete revelation to me. What clicked for me was that you're enhancing server-rendered HTML, not replacing it. Need a dropdown menu? Add x-data="{ open: false }" and you're done. Want to show/hide elements? x-show does exactly what you expect etc. No bundler required, no compilation step.
Dx resources must aim AI's attention having enormous technical documentation and be AI efficient in order to become mainstream.
I believe no other shiniest thing will ever make cognitive nest in humans. We are overloaded.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's like saying my C# is getting turned into CLR bytecode, so I do have to learn CLR bytecode because I have an abstraction over it. Yet I know roughly what it is, but I couldn't begin to actually write the stuff myself. Good abstractions mean you don't have to worry about the layer below. Now of course it's not really the case that React holds up to being a good abstraction, especially when it comes to CSS and st…
> That's like saying my C# is getting turned into CLR bytecode, so I do have to learn CLR bytecode because I have an abstraction over it. That's not a valid analogy, 99.99% of C# developers never see or touch CLR bytecode, where every React developer is still working with HTML+CSS.
In theory, react developers ought to be able to code against the react API in typescript, without seeing the "raw" HTML+JS that gets delivered to the browser.
So what's failing those developers? Is it the tooling, the abstraction itself, or something else?
I'm a big fan of returning html instead of json when possible and I've been htmx curious for a bit. With all the examples people keep using, I assumed it would be way smaller. 16kb minified is a lot. Looking at the docs just now the core api seems reasonable, but it a lot larger than I'd assumed.
I am tired of people using the smallest "Hello World" example to demonstrate how something is better than React -- "See, you don't need all these things to get a website up and running!" Of course it will work. I can vibe code the most terrible web framework you have seen within 20 minutes and claim it is better than React, but what does it prove? > You write zero JavaScript > The whole library is ~14kb gzipped Oh su…
Right, it's also bothered me that the Vue docs spend so much time showing how it's a "progressive" framework. "Just use it for one component!" And show examples of how it can be lazy loaded in for your special complex spot that needs vue. Like c'mon, if I'm using Vue, I'm using Vue. Same for React. Strap me into the native state management solution for your framework, your router, your preconfigured bundler. I'm not…
The thing is React is usually fine, and even if you don't have to build _this_ thing in React due to simplicity, why bother learning two paradigms when you can just use the heavier one for everything and most likely never encounter any real practical showstopping issue?
> why bother learning two paradigms Objection. Your React is ultimately turning into HTML so you DO have to learn HTML + CSS. You just have an abstraction over it.
I am tired of people using the smallest "Hello World" example to demonstrate how something is better than React -- "See, you don't need all these things to get a website up and running!" Of course it will work. I can vibe code the most terrible web framework you have seen within 20 minutes and claim it is better than React, but what does it prove? > You write zero JavaScript > The whole library is ~14kb gzipped Oh su…
To put a bit more colour on this, I think the fear of most devs with an ultra-simple framework like this is that eventually you hit a wall where you need it to do something it doesn't natively do, and because the only thing you know is these magical declarative hx-whatever attributes, there's no way forward. I appreciate the basic demos, but I think what would really sell me is showing the extensibility story. Show m…
Hey, I created htmx and while I appreciate the publicity, I’m not a huge fan of these types of hyperbolic articles. There are lots of different ways to build web apps with their own strengths and weaknesses. I try to assess htmx’s strengths and weaknesses here: https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/ Also, please try unpoly: https://unpoly.com/ It’s another excellent hypermedia oriented library Edit: the arti…
Want to make a dropdown that updates a enumerated field on a record? Easy.
Want to make a modal dialog when users create a new content item? Easy.
Want a search box with autocomplete? Easy.
As I see it the basic problem of RIA front ends is that a piece of data changed and you have to update the front end accordingly. The complexity of this problem ranges from:
(1) One piece of information is updated on the page (Easy)
(2) Multiple pieces of information are updated but it's a static situation where the back end knows what has to be updated (Easy, HTMX can update more than one element at a time)
(3) Multiple pieces of information but it's dynamic (think of a productivity or decision support application which has lots of panes which may or may not be visible, property sheets, etc -- hard)
You do need some adaptations on the back end to really enjoy HTMX, particularly you have to have some answer to the problem that a partial might be drawn as part of a full page or drawn individually [1] and while you're there you might as well have something that makes it easy to update N partials together.
[1] ... I guess you could have HTMX suck them all down when the page loads but I'd be worried about speed and people seeing incomplete states
The thing is React is usually fine, and even if you don't have to build _this_ thing in React due to simplicity, why bother learning two paradigms when you can just use the heavier one for everything and most likely never encounter any real practical showstopping issue?
The reality of React is that you have to keep re-learning and un-learning stuff if you want to keep up with React's ecosystem, because the surface area of the libraries is so large. (see "JavaScript fatigue") Whereas with HTMX you learn a very, very basic concept in 15mins, and you're good to go for the next decade(s), and it will be more than enough for 80% of your projects. Same as with vim and Emacs vs. proprietar…