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Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

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Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#71

Post by mathw »

drumhead wrote: post #40
TacticalCoder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intentions of votes for Labour went from 34% in 2019 to 17% or something now. While Reform UK is gaining voters left and right. But it seems mostly due to a revolt against the "two tier Kharmer" policy of the current government: where normal people are jailed for online posts while others are free to break a female policer's nose at the airport and then be let to walk free by the judge and while others also get to ra…

Labour have dropped to 17% because their left wing has moved to the greens, Libdems and nationalists. Reform support has stopped growing at 25% and that's mainly Tories moving across. The only people that harp on about "two tier Keir" are the extreme right wing loonies.

Absolutely. Labour betrayed their core voters, who are looking for something else, but won't touch Reform UK because they're even more disgusting than the current right-wing Labour-in-name-only government.

Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#72

Post by miroljub »

Kbelicius wrote: post #63
miroljub wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK arrests 12k people per year for social media posts, using vague laws to undermine free speech. Here's the citation from the EU parliament itself [1], since I doubt you'd believe non-government sources. > That is because Germany and UK are beacons of democracy when compared to the countries that you listed. Read my comment again. The fact that the UK and Germany are in some aspects still better than the ones I…

> The UK arrests 12k people per year for social media posts, using vague laws to undermine free speech. This doesn't mean anything in isolation. > Here's the citation from the EU parliament itself [1], since I doubt you'd believe non-government sources. Do we know each other? > The fact that the UK and Germany are in some aspects still better than the ones I mentioned doesn't make them beacons of democracy. No, but t…

>> The UK arrests 12k people per year for social media posts, using vague laws to undermine free speech. > This doesn't mean anything in isolation.

It's pretty good proxy for freedom of speech, one of the features without which democracy is not possible.

>> Here's the citation from the EU parliament itself [1], since I doubt you'd believe non-government sources.

> Do we know each other?

Probably not, but I can smell a state believer when I see him.

> No, but there aren't many that are much better so when you take all of that in to account, yes UK an Germany are beacons of democracy.

If they are, it's a pretty low baseline. They are but a shadow of what they once were.

>> It's sad that those countries declined so fast that we are now comparing them.

> I already asked this but by what metric are they declining faste?

The article I posted has a link [1]. There you can see the number of people arrested went up from 5502 in 2017 to 12183 in 2023. It's a pretty sharp decline in freedom of speech.

[1] https://archive.is/kC5x2

Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#73

Post by [deleted] »

mosura wrote: post #49
miroljub wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you got heavily downvoted. Yes, there are governments that are worse than European, but the decline of European government is the fastest. You may be surprised that the UK is the world leader in the number of people arrested because of internet posts. And that Germany, which is still way behind the UK, has more people arrested for the same reason than Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Belarus,…

Indeed: https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/17/man-jailed-burning-migrant-ho... “An X user who posted two anti-immigration tweets been handed a 18-month jail sentence.” Edit to point out 1. That is a quote and 2. The UK considers this Ok though https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjeykklwn7vo

[deleted]

Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#74

Post by immibis »

mosura wrote: post #25
flowerthoughts wrote: post #17

> He warns that developers of apps like Signal and WhatsApp could technically fall within the legal definition of "hostile activity" simply because their technology "make[s] it more difficult for UK security and intelligence agencies to monitor communications. Sounds like Let's Encrypt would also fall under that. This has got to stop. If you want to stop criminals, then focus on their illegal activites, not the stree…

> This has got to stop. If you want to stop criminals, then focus on their illegal activites, not the streets they walk on. That would be against everything european governments stand for.

Is that why they rejected Chat Control 1.0?

Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#76

Post by immibis »

mosura wrote: post #49
miroljub wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you got heavily downvoted. Yes, there are governments that are worse than European, but the decline of European government is the fastest. You may be surprised that the UK is the world leader in the number of people arrested because of internet posts. And that Germany, which is still way behind the UK, has more people arrested for the same reason than Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Belarus,…

Indeed: https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/17/man-jailed-burning-migrant-ho... “An X user who posted two anti-immigration tweets been handed a 18-month jail sentence.” Edit to point out 1. That is a quote and 2. The UK considers this Ok though https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjeykklwn7vo

What were the tweets?

That would be important context to mention, don't you think?

Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#77

Post by creata »

_bohm wrote: post #61
mosura wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed: https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/17/man-jailed-burning-migrant-ho... “An X user who posted two anti-immigration tweets been handed a 18-month jail sentence.” Edit to point out 1. That is a quote and 2. The UK considers this Ok though https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjeykklwn7vo

Not that I believe people should be jailed for speech, but merely referring to what he said as “anti-immigration” is very much burying the lede

For people too lazy to click, the second post was:

> I think it’s time for the British to gang together, hit the streets and start the slaughter.

> Violence and murder is the only way now. Start off burning every migrant hotel then head off to MPs’ houses and Parliament, we need to take over by FORCE.

I'm not sure what the punishment for such a clear but ineffective incitement to violence should be, but it shouldn't be nothing.

Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#78

Post by immibis »

miroljub wrote: post #58
Kbelicius wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why you got heavily downvoted. Because his post contributes nothing to the discussion. > Yes, there are governments that are worse than European, but the decline of European government is the fastest. What makes it the fastest? > You may be surprised that the UK is the world leader in the number of people arrested because of internet posts. And that Germany, which is still way behind the UK, has…

The UK arrests 12k people per year for social media posts, using vague laws to undermine free speech. Here's the citation from the EU parliament itself [1], since I doubt you'd believe non-government sources. > That is because Germany and UK are beacons of democracy when compared to the countries that you listed. Read my comment again. The fact that the UK and Germany are in some aspects still better than the ones I…

What did those people post?

Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#79

Post by MangoToupe »

creata wrote: post #77
_bohm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I believe people should be jailed for speech, but merely referring to what he said as “anti-immigration” is very much burying the lede

For people too lazy to click, the second post was: > I think it’s time for the British to gang together, hit the streets and start the slaughter. > Violence and murder is the only way now. Start off burning every migrant hotel then head off to MPs’ houses and Parliament, we need to take over by FORCE. I'm not sure what the punishment for such a clear but ineffective incitement to violence should be, but it shouldn't…

This is an convictable crime in the US. Inciting violence is emphatically not protected speech.

Re: Independent review of UK national security law warns of overreach

#80

Post by immibis »

McDyver wrote: post #6

It makes a lot of sense. Whoever wants to continue developing "these apps" will do it privately, and sell the service to those who want to keep doing things in hiding. Well done, watchdog! So again, it just harms the general public, while making it harder to catch criminals.

It makes it easier to catch criminals, since anyone who has the app is a criminal. I believe they already treat GrapheneOS this way.
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