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'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

bbc.com

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Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#21

Post by jimbohn »

andrewstuart wrote: post #6

I worked in recruiting for a long time and I can tell you I never saw much in the way of any deliberate strategy to create fake job posts. The thing is that whether or not a job exists at a point in time is far less black and white than you might naively think. There are many reasons for it to be somewhat grey and banning the practice doesn’t really mean anything because you would have to quantify precisely under wha…

>There is absolutely not a one to one relationship between a job and a job ad.

Isn't this a problem? It means companies are wasting individuals' time (hence money), whereas companies are in a better position to hedge the risk. Would it be legal if I started, for example, posting fake apartment ads and not show up (because the apartment doesn't even exist)? Would it be ethical?

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#22

Post by the_real_cher »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> Dr Escalera adds that she has also heard examples of companies posting jobs to obtain and sell data. How is that not illegal? Pretending to offer jobs just to suck in resumes to some database just seems like it should be illegal. Or just like running scams is illegal but they are in another country "so tough luck, you'll never get us"?

Its straight up wire fraud.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#23

Post by VerifiedReports »

malikolivier wrote: post #10

I know companies that are posting vacancies that currently don't exist in order to keep good candidates on the hook. They tell the candidate that we should keep in touch for when the company is ready to hire them. I am not sure if it's bad or not. It's true that it kinda wastes the candidate's time. In some cases though, the candidate is so good that the company will create a position just for them.

Let's resolve this right now: It's bad.

No... it's worse than that; it's THEFT, and monumentally offensive. It's time that everyone, EVERYONE stop giving entities a free pass on stealing from us by deliberately wasting our time.

In every aspect of life, every hour of our day, we're being ripped off. From the assholes blocking the passing lane, to "ghost jobs," to non-functioning subscription-cancellation phone numbers and Web forms... people should be going apeshit about the despicable and unpunished theft of our time.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#24

Post by colechristensen »

andrewstuart wrote: post #6

I worked in recruiting for a long time and I can tell you I never saw much in the way of any deliberate strategy to create fake job posts. The thing is that whether or not a job exists at a point in time is far less black and white than you might naively think. There are many reasons for it to be somewhat grey and banning the practice doesn’t really mean anything because you would have to quantify precisely under wha…

Create a state or local job posting registry.

Put a tax of 10% one year's salary on any employee hired without a registry posting. (employers to put the job posting number on the I-9 form)

Put a $1000 tax on any job posting not filled or cancelled within six months. Make that information public.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#25

Post by pastel8739 »

avidiax wrote: post #20

We could at least require that all applications have a standardized format for resumé and a list of legally allowable questions. No more requiring the candidate to do 30 minutes of data entry to encode their resumé into your HR system. Then a ghost job wouldn't really waste much time, since uploading a JSON should take 30 seconds.

Companies already get so many applications that applying is a crapshoot without a referral. I feel like this is the opposite of what we need.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#26

Post by josefrichter »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> Dr Escalera adds that she has also heard examples of companies posting jobs to obtain and sell data. How is that not illegal? Pretending to offer jobs just to suck in resumes to some database just seems like it should be illegal. Or just like running scams is illegal but they are in another country "so tough luck, you'll never get us"?

I believe it actually is illegal, via a set of more general rules on data collection, on what constitutes a fraud, etc. May not be spelled out exactly like this specific use case, but still very likely covered by law. Just difficult to prove.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#27

Post by wisty »

rdtsc wrote: post #11
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #3

>it’s to raise stock value by fake growth indicators how does that work as a growth indicator, are there any known organizations that track your growth based on how many job postings you do, and then use that data to indicate your growth? I don't doubt that it could happen, but if it did we would have to know about it, I also don't doubt that I don't know about it, but I would like to know.

> how does that work as a growth indicator, are there any known organizations that track your growth based on how many job postings you do, and then use that data to indicate your growth? As a wild guess this may be part of the story a company tells itself. Every individual and company needs to tell themselves a nice "story" to feel good about themselves. In case of a company "damn, look how many jobs we're posting,…

It must fill some purpose though. I doubt it's entirely just marketing in most legitimate companies.

Effectively a/b testing job adds?

Or trying to get a range of candidates so they can find a good fit?

Let's say you have, like, 10 jobs to do but you're only going to hire two people (either loading them up with more work, or internally reshuffling responsibilities, probably a bit of both).

So you advertise for every role in your ideal team, then get the two candidates who plug the most holes, or look like the best fit.

I feel dirty suggesting it, but it probably happens.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#28

Post by josefrichter »

malikolivier wrote: post #10

I know companies that are posting vacancies that currently don't exist in order to keep good candidates on the hook. They tell the candidate that we should keep in touch for when the company is ready to hire them. I am not sure if it's bad or not. It's true that it kinda wastes the candidate's time. In some cases though, the candidate is so good that the company will create a position just for them.

Oh I am pretty sure it’s bad. I am actually quite shocked someone would ruminate wherever or not it’s bad.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#29

Post by josefrichter »

wickedsight wrote: post #18

I was applying for a while last year. Spending hours to write a cover letter and then either hearing nothing or getting a canned rejection letter is super frustrating. I've come to the conclusion that putting effort into an application is time wasted, so from now on AI is writing pretty much every single one of my cover letters. Doing that allows me to send out 5 applications in the time it normally takes me to do 1.…

Cover letters are dead imho. Even before AI came to play.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#30

Post by avidiax »

pastel8739 wrote: post #25
avidiax wrote: post #20

We could at least require that all applications have a standardized format for resumé and a list of legally allowable questions. No more requiring the candidate to do 30 minutes of data entry to encode their resumé into your HR system. Then a ghost job wouldn't really waste much time, since uploading a JSON should take 30 seconds.

Companies already get so many applications that applying is a crapshoot without a referral. I feel like this is the opposite of what we need.

The employers want applications so badly they are willing to post job ads that don't exist.

The need for a referral to get human eyes on your resume is a different problem that isn't made better by making every application expensive for the applicant. Poor quality applicants have more time, you might say.

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