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Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

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Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#31

Post by PaulRobinson »

kqr wrote: post #21
baubino wrote: post #7

This post makes me feel really old. HN is very self-explanatory if you take it for what it is — a discussion forum. It’s a place where some people post ideas, questions, news, or projects and other people respond to them. That’s it. If you post something interesting or meaningful, then people will respond. Your question makes me feel ancient because I fear that the concept of communicating to spark conversation (as o…

> If you post something interesting or meaningful, then people will respond. That's an oversimplification. There are things that get responses because they're flamebait rather than interesting, and then even more interesting things that never get any discussion going. I don't know if the residual factor is just "chance" or if there are controllable inputs involved. (One thing I do suspect but cannot confirm is that a…

The fact that HN does not work in exactly the same way as the horrid platforms out there that automagically surface things that make neurone in your head scream "click that thing! click it! look! LOOOOOOK!", does not mean your brain doesn't treat it the same way.

This isn't unique to this technology: books with interesting titles and covers sell better than books with boring titles and covers, even if the latter has more interesting content.

I think what makes HN a little different is that a lot of places we might congregate online only exist for the flamebait, or are specifically built around engagement metrics to serve DAU/MAU numbers and advertising asks. You just happen to take a bit more chance on here than you would anywhere else, and that's absolutely 100% a good thing.

If there are controllable inputs that skew you to one side of the variance, I hope the moment someone discovers them, they are shut down - otherwise this place just becomes another hell-hole.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#32

Post by satisfice »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #29
underdeserver wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you post something interesting or meaningful, then people will respond. A simple way to refute this is to note that some links were posted multiple times and only got traction on the second or third time.

That's a feature, not a bug.

Whether it's a feature or a bug, it's mysterious. Hence the question.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#33

Post by kergonath »

This question seems very strange, because it’s really not difficult to understand how it works. You submit, people vote if they like it, but mostly ignore it, and occasionally flag it. Stories that generated interests rise, sometimes to the point where they end up in the front page. Stories that generate too much unwanted interest (e.g. that look too much like flame wars, or like never-ending discussions that go nowhere) sink to the bottom. There are corner cases and you won’t get the exact algorithm, partly because human moderators intervene as well.

If there is one thing to note, it’s that obvious self-promotion is not good. Technical details are more interesting than sales pitches.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#34

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #22

New Job discipline born: "Hacker News Visibility Consultant Services", like there are companys optimizing your position in the app stores :-D

[Laughs nervously]

I bet that this isn’t an exaggeration. Being highly-ranked on HN can probably give a startup a huge advantage, in the hype department.

I guarantee that LLMs are currently being feverishly trained on HN front pages, for the last few years, and we’re gonna be seeing “link farm” sites, specifically designed to rank high on HN.

I enjoy it here. I don’t hang out on any other social media, so this place gets a lot of my time (I’m writing this right now, as I’m working up some tired, to go back to sleep). I’ve spent my entire life, hanging around people that intimidate and inspire me, so this place feels like home.

If it turns into a Dead Internet site, I’ll probably pack it in. I have left a number of sites, over the years. It would make me sad, as I’ve lasted longer here, than anywhere else.

Most of my karma is from comments, not submissions. I like to engage.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#35

Post by PaulRobinson »

dang wrote: post #8

(I'm a mod here) It's true that this place can be cryptic, and that has downsides—specifically, it can be confusing to newcomers, even to some newcomers who would make ideal HN users. That sucks. But there's a key that unlocks most of the puzzles. That is to understand that we're optimizing for exactly one thing: curiosity. (Specifically, intellectual curiosity, since there are other kinds of curiosity too.) Here are…

A great take, and thanks for your all hard work dang.

Yesterday the top comment on two stories I went to discuss had deep and meaningful content, before the last line which was a "and I talk about this stuff all the time on my newsletter [link]", and I was conflicted. Same poster each time.

The poster had done the HN thing: responded with thoughtful examination of TFA, unique and interesting insight, and I don't feel it was AI generated.

And then they marred it. They pushed something just slightly out of context. Not entirely, just a smidge.

I hope we can keep an eye on that sort of thing around here, it feels like it could slide into something...

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#37

Post by PaulRobinson »

yen223 wrote: post #27
internet2000 wrote: post #9

Please don't try to game the algorithm here.

The trick to gaming the algorithm here is to post interesting original content that software-focused people like to read Don't tell the mods!

Broadly true, but I think we can let the hardware-focused people in now and again, even if they do make an awful noise as they drag their knuckles along the floor :)

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#38

Post by _f9cu »

Writers.

Money. A spot as US citizen to get into startup school.

Money. An investment from a noble mind to another noble mind.

Money. Pass information to fellows at YC (who are from a different domain, see YC as a cool place) they crowd and promote (seems organic)

Money. Well, then the product or the tech fades, because its a bloatware.

They retry the same thing again with next batch of people. Keeps the forum running. The maintainers get retired or really tired.

Readers. I have seen this one before. Reader. Well, now, you are old

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#39

Post by satisfice »

For years I thought that Hacker News has no moderators. Apparently it does, but they seem to keep a low profile. I have no idea what their protocol is and I don't see any help menu that mentions them.

I found out, the other day, that if you post too many comments in too short a time (also undocumented) your final comment is deleted (sorry, you just lose it) instantly with a somewhat snarky message about how you post too much.

I am a little mystified about what community Hacker News serves. It doesn't seem to be the kind of hackers I grew up with (fiercely skeptical, a la 2600 magazine), because, as one example, skepticism about AI or self-driving vehicles is generally downvoted.

Not so much Hacker News as Next Shiny Toy News.

Even so, I know of no better way to discover interesting tools and trends than Hacker News.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone understand how Hacker News works?

#40

Post by edent »

Do you want to know a secret?

Sometimes my friends post on social media platform A "Hey, I've just posted on platform B. Upvotes appreciated."

Or a newsletter will say "please share this post on…"

Or people on Discord / Slack / Matrix will say "people are being mean to me on platform C, where are my defenders at?"

HN feels organic - and is pretty well moderated - but it isn't immune to family & friends giving something an initial boost.

But if no one wants to discuss it, the post will falter.

As for the other levers, it is hard to say. Sometimes the posts I've worked hardest on with the most detail just die a death. But the half-finished thought casually tossed off will Do Numbers. Outrage sometimes works, but it is a fickle friend to tame. Catchy titles aren't clickbait (despite what some people say) but they work best when they are descriptive.

And, finally, people can and do resubmit stuff. What doesn't work at 0900 Monday will be popular at 1700 Tuesday. Why? That's just the way it is.

In the end, it is all luck. But, as the saying goes, the harder you work the luckier you get.

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