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Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they have over a billion in the bank. Which is both a ton of money, but also goes away quickly when you're a large company paying lots of money to salaries.

So if you have a billion in the bank, you can collect 5% return and never touch the money. So you get $50m a year to pay enough engineers to make a browser. That's plenty of money if they recognize they need a super lean company with 0 bloat and a few highly paid experts who focus on correctness and not bullshit features.

How many engineers are enough to make a browser? How do you know?

Vivaldi employ 28 developers and 33 others to make an unstable Chromium fork and email program.[1]

Bloat and bullshit features to you are minimum requirements to someone else.

[1] https://vivaldi.com/team/

Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#362
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The moment Mozilla failed to stop being dependent on Google's money whilst being true to their own mission in being a 'privacy first browser' it already was the end and the damage in trust was done. I understand your position but what is the alternative funding source that could keep a company making a free browser running? Apple funds Safari's development but it's basically a side project for them, Google funds Ch…

I believe you stated the problem in a way that its unsolvable. Charge your customers money, so you can work for them. I'm not nearly as certain as you are that Netscape failed because it was charging money. Netscape just stopped updating for multiple years at the height of the browser wars. For Firefox in particular, I would 100% be willing to pay for it. Individuals like me who will pay are rare, but companies that…

> I believe you stated the problem in a way that its unsolvable.

I think you misunderstood me. I asked a question because the answer is far from obvious. If the solution to this problem was obvious, we wouldn't be having the same discussion on HN every 6 months when a new press release from Mozilla comes out.

I am very much interested by what people think the solution should be. Now, you mentioned Enterprise customers which is interesting because usually what I have read on this sort of threads was that Mozilla had made many mistakes (I agree), Mozilla should change their ways by removing this feature or adding this feature but almost everyone conveniently forgets that at the end of the day someone has to pay for all this stuff.

> Charge your customers money, so you can work for them.

Which is what I mentioned in my comment. Start charging people. The problem is how do you convince the general public to use Firefox instead of Chrome or Edge, especially is you need to pay for the software?

If privacy was a selling point, then Meta would have closed shop many years ago.

> I'm not nearly as certain as you are that Netscape failed because it was charging money. Netscape just stopped updating for multiple years at the height of the browser wars.

It doesnt matter because we will never know. The reality is that people expect to browse the internet for free. Asking them for cash has never been done at this scale.

If Mozilla was to start charging money tomorrow, you would find that many people would object to that and most people would simply move to Chrome because why not?

> Then, lean hard into the enterprise world. Figure out what enterprise customers want. The answer to that is always for things to never, ever change and the ability to tightly control their users. That isn't fun code to write, but its profitable and doesn't run counter to Mozilla's mission. That keeps Mozilla stable and financially independent.

I understand the comparison with Red hat but I am doubtful that this model will work. Red Hat helps companies ship stuff, it makes people more productive, it increases the bottom line. What would a paid version of Firefox do that makes people more productive or makes companies money that they couldn't get from Chrome? I am genuinely asking because again, it's mot very clear to me.

> Mozilla will maintain lots of influence to push forward their mission, because hopefully their enterprise customer base is big, but also they are the ones actually doing the work to make the downstream fork possible.

That is big assumption that has not been proven at this time. I think that making any sort of plans based on hypothetical paid version is highly speculative.

Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#363
post #7

Does anyone else feel like the "Trust" angle is the only card they have left to play? Technically, Chrome is faster on JS benchmarks. Edge has better OS integration on Windows and comes by default. Safari wins on battery life on Mac. Firefox's only unique selling point is "We aren't a massive data vampire." If they clutter the browser with AI which inherently requires data processing, often in the cloud, they dilute…

> Technically, Chrome is faster on JS benchmarks. I'm not browsing benchmarks :-/ When I do then chrome will have an advantage. Meanwhile, in the real world, a JS engine can be half the speed of the Chrome one and the browser can still be faster, because blocking ads is what gives you the biggest speed up. All the performance advantages in the world fail to matter if you're still loading ads.

On my Android phone, Chrome opens web pages noticeably (and consistently) faster than Firefox. And I wasn't using a stopwatch. I am literally making a sacrifice to use Firefox.

Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#364
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how you look at it. They made $653 million in 2023, most coming from their biggest competitor, Google. They don't need this much money, but it means more layoffs and cutting scope drastically. It's expensive to run a modern browser.

Do you mean they need income, or do you actually mean profit? In a nonprofit, you don’t need layoffs unless you’re losing money (negative profit), normally.

Yeah you're right, I said profit in the original post because it was a nice polyptoton, but I did indeed mean revenue. That's on me!

Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#365

Why does firefox need a CEO? Is the Linux model not feasible?

Because Mozilla is an explicitly mission driven non-profit. Linux doesn't really have a model, the closest equivalent is basically Chromium which is to say it's an open source project to which extremely large companies donate the vast majority of developer hours.

Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in a compromised state, if given the choice between Firefox and Brave, I would choose Firefox 10 out of 10 times. A closed source chromium fork put out by a business that still isn't sure what its business model is and already has a fair number of "whoopsies" under its belt is a complete non-starter for me. That is, given the choice between Firefox and Brave. For what it's worth, my current browser is Zen, and I…

Brave is 100% FOSS. At least the client side, I've not looked into their server applications. https://github.com/brave

Fair enough. I'd still be very hesitant to use it on account of it being a chrome fork. Moreover, I don't really understand how Brave expects to be a viable business without deeply betraying their userbase at some point.

It admittedly is a gut feeling, but Brave started out with a browser and some handwavy crypto magic beans and seemed like it careened from idea to idea looking for a business model, occasionally stepping on toes along the way. They have products like AI integration, a VPN and a firewall, but those aren't particularly stand-out products in a very crowded market.

As a point of comparison, Kagi started out with a product that people were willing to pay for, and grew other services from there. I feel comfortable giving them money, and I'd be willing to at least try their browser - if it ever releases for Windows.

Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#368
> As Mozilla moves forward, we will focus on becoming the trusted software company.

Does this sentence feel incomplete to anyone else? Is it supposed to say "the most trusted software company" or is it supposed to be an emphasis (i.e. the trusted software company)?

Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#369
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The moment Mozilla failed to stop being dependent on Google's money whilst being true to their own mission in being a 'privacy first browser' it already was the end and the damage in trust was done. I understand your position but what is the alternative funding source that could keep a company making a free browser running? Apple funds Safari's development but it's basically a side project for them, Google funds Ch…

>what is the alternative funding source that could keep a company making a free browser running? i wonder how linux does it? linus and anthony should have a head to head.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. Linux is made of many distros, each one with their own strong points and features. Many different maintainers matain them. There is no single point of funding for them.

Mozilla on the other hand makes basically one semi well-known product (and other even less known stuff) and gives it away for free.

If tomorrow Google pulls the plug, who will pay for the salaries of the engineers who maintain Firefox? The general public does not care if Firefox lives or dies. In my circle of friends and family, I am the only one who uses Firefox. Most people are on Chrome or Brave. That's it.

Someone in the comments above mentioned that Mozilla could release a paid version for Enterprise customers, imitating Red Hat in a way, but I am highly skeptical that Enterprise customers in times such as these will be willing to pay for something that they can get for free from Google or Microsoft.

I guess we will have to wait and see.

Re: Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

#370
post #301

"Mozilla's former CEO, Mitchell Baker, earned nearly $7 million in 2022, with compensation rising from around $3 million in 2020 to over $5.5 million in 2021 and $6.9 million in 2022" I wonder how much the new CEO is making now.

Just to clarify how outrageous the Mozilla CEO compensation is, consider that Tim Cook makes 0.019% of Apple's revenue in compensation ($75M on $391BN of revenue). For Sundar Pichai (Google), it's 0.003%; Samsung is 0.0001%; Nadella at Microsoft is 0.032%. For Mozilla? 1.18%! That's almost FORTY TIMES these other companies. Apple revolutionized mobile computing; Google revolutionized search, Microsoft owns enterprise…

Yeah, considering how poorly it went and how much market share they lost I also always thought it was outrageous... Also so many people laid off and projects shut down. I don't have any insight, and I could be way off, but it always felt like the company was captured by bureaucracy and drained as long as it was possible. Again I could be way off, as I don't have any personal connections to it. I was a regular user until around 10 years ago, but Chrome just leapfrogged them and that was it. There was at one point nothing left other than nostalgia.

edit: I still remember using Mozilla which was this "good thing" but somehow clunky, and then getting so excited when trying Phoenix for the first time, which was then renamed to Firebird, and lastly Firefox. It was so "obviously" the right thing to use.

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